NROI Podcast
Want to know more about the USPSA and SCSA Rules? Need to keep up on the rules changes? The NROI Podcast is the place to get the rules, from the source. Join us for discussions on the rules, history of the sport, and other topics.May contain infrequent use of mild profanity.
NROI Podcast
107. NROI Podcast August 2026 #3
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Troy and Jodi report on the just completed Race Gun Nationals, new Range Masters are announced, and then into the mailbag to answer more of your questions.
Note: Transcriptions done by AI or other means may not be entirely accurate. This podcast, and any transcription thereof, does not constitute an official NROI ruling. Questions should be sent to rules@uspsa.org.
Disclaimers And Sponsor Notes
SPEAKER_04This podcast is brought to you by the National Range Oxford Institute, United States Bracks Two Station, and Steel Challenge Cuting Association.org slash tools, state.org slash tools, and on the USPS apps available in your Apple App Store and Google Play Store. All rates for this podcast are reserved. No portion of this podcast may be used or redistributed without written permissions from the director of the National Range Obsters Institute. Role discussions on this podcast do not constitute an official ruling. Discussions on this podcast are meant to inform and educate. The only official rulings are published as per the bylaws United States Practical Studing Association. Questions about rules could be emailed to rules at USPSA.org. This is episode 107, recorded late August 2026.
RaceGun Nationals Match Debrief
SPEAKER_04Well hello everyone.
SPEAKER_01Good evening.
SPEAKER_04And our assistant directory jodie.
SPEAKER_00Good evening.
SPEAKER_04Well you two are fresh back from RaceGun Nationals in uh beautiful Ohio. So uh how were how did the match go? And how did how is everything?
SPEAKER_01So setup was rained on almost continuously. Rain and rain gun? I'm I'm shocked. I know, right? And then uh it was clear for the rest of the match. So that turned out pretty well. It did sprinkle the very last when the very last stages were finishing up Sunday afternoon, but not enough to really call it rain. It was just kind of a little bit of light sprinkle. But yeah, it really poured um one day during setup, just before the match started, and we had a lot of water on the base when we got there, but managed to get it get it off of there. So 18 stages, 631 or 33 shooters, 33. And 22 disqualifications, which is about 3.4%, I think something like that. So not a high, high, high number of DQs, but it was an open match, so people tend to push. And uh stages were a little technical, so you had to get in and out of some positions. So uh there were some issues with that. But we did end up losing a stage because of uh inconsistent start position. So we're gonna do a little bit of work teaching people how to do what up range, facing up range means.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we have a I think we probably have a question about facing downrange on the list tonight, but uh facing up range is everybody should understand that, right? Because it's pretty clear in the rules, and we have some classifiers that have it, but it's head, shoulders, hips, and feet directly squared away to the backstop. And uh that just wasn't happening. We had video evidence of that from the from the pre-match, and there was a whole squad that was starting twisted around when the rangemaster noticed it and went up and asked them. So, I mean, people make mistakes, right? RO's are human, they make mistakes, but there was no way that we could get that back. So we lost that stage. And to be honest, I don't think it was anybody's most favorite stage.
SPEAKER_00There were a lot of people excited when it got tossed.
SPEAKER_01It was uh it was a shaky bridge. It didn't really shake that bad, but it did move. Um, and you couldn't hang on to the railings of the shelf. You had to put your gun on the shelf. You started facing up range with your toes against the back of the fault line on the bridge. And then you had to turn and get your gun, and you had to shoot around the edges of a of a barricade in front of you, and then there was a low port, and you had to make a reload uh in between there. So it was not um, it was let's just say it was not the most funnest stage ever, probably for most people. But it wasn't a lot of crying when um when we when we tossed that stage. And we ended up moving chronograph. They were they were seven, it was stage seven, and they were feeding chronograph because it was a really short stage. So we just moved the whole chrono operation into that bay to put it in line, and it worked out fine. So, you know, you win some, you lose some. I've been responsible for losing a stage before, and and it's not a good feeling, but it you know, it happens, and if you can't fix it, that's the only equitable thing to do is remove the stage.
SPEAKER_05So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh we had one guy reshoot it before we made the decision to do it because he was all gung-ho to do it. I don't know if it did him any good or not, but uh so that was that was the thing with that. I think Jody Jody has some pretty good experiences there, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I uh was CRO for a competitor squad during the pre-match. They were a great squad, didn't have to get on them about resetting. I had a great RO assisting me. It was his first major match he'd worked, his name's Bo, and I don't I can't remember what his last name was. What was it?
SPEAKER_01Venery.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And he drove two hours each day to come work. Um because he was local issue. Um, but he did a great job. Uh we were a good team. And then um I worked zone one, which was kind of boring, but we had one stage with that used one one five five and learned some things there. Expect a blog post. I think that's a rule that we need to do some education on and clarification what counts as an inadvertent step and what is actually penalized with one one five five. Um you know, I think I have a question in a month. No, I didn't have a question in the month. That was a different question. But um maybe I'll do a question in the month for it. Let's see. Um, but that's a new rule, and none of us have really had to deal with it. So um, I think there was two stages in this match that used 1155.
SPEAKER_05Um, there were two.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And um I mean it looked like a fun match. I had the door stage with a door that activated two swingers and a bobber at once. And um if you didn't pull the door open all the way far enough, it only acted two of the three, and you had to reopen the door. So there was a lot of um competitor concerns about that. And we just told him it's been like that the whole match. It was like that during the staff match or the pre-match when my squad went through. He had to give that door a good tug and open it about halfway or a little more for it to activate everything.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_00And um yeah, had some other little moments of excitement, you know, typical RM board, board, board. Everyone wants your attention in 30 minutes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um but nothing major. I had the quiet zone compared to the other zones.
SPEAKER_04Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was in the zone with the stage that got tossed, then he had stage nine with the turning targets and uh slippery shooting area that and button and the button.
SPEAKER_01They managed to fix the shooting area uh with some mulch, but I mean it was still squishy, it just wasn't it just wasn't slick and muddy. And then that whole area was just kind of dead brown by the time they ended the match was because there was a lot of grass there. Uh every other bay at Moringo is rock, but this is their turning target, like 50-yard, you know, basically a PPC type uh setup. And so they had the targets time to appear for so many seconds, disappear for so many seconds, which to me kind of dictated the timing of the stage. Um and it and it dictated how fast you could move from one position to the other and what you could see, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, if if I had to do it over again and and they asked my opinion, which they didn't, uh it would just continuously pop back and forth, right? Just turn, turn, turn. And then at the very end, and that would be a considerable amount of time, they would appear and just stay appeared, right? But by that time, your time is so long, you know. Yeah. So better to try to get them when they're moving. But I think a continuous turn, one second on, one second off, whatever they could do with it would would be great. But it was just like the door, it was competitor activated. You had to smack that button. And while the button, I I played with one that it was just in the box. They they must have had 20 of them there.
SPEAKER_00Well, 12, they got a pack of 12 off of Amazon, I was told.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, pack of 12. So I played with one just in a box, and you didn't have to beat on it, but you do have to, it's a positive click to make it work, right? Oh, yeah. Because it lifts up and twists to be set, and then you gotta smack it. Like I said, you don't have to hit it with all your might, but you do have to hit it. And if you hit it with your fingers and not the palm of your hand, I think that that didn't work. And then some people just missed it, right? They were running by it and just missed it. Smacked the wood, had to go back and hit it. Uh, the other thing that that could have been better about it, I think, was they should have put a light on it, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that when you hit it and you knew that circuit was made, the light was on because it didn't react right away. It took it a couple seconds to go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there was a pause and that told people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you they were waiting for it because they ran over to the to the edge pretty quick, and they were waiting on it, and then they uh they were like, Well, uh, do I have to go back? And they're starting to go back, and then the targets appear, you know. There was no sound associated with it whatsoever. So he didn't know that you had uh actually made a positive connection, and I think that probably threw a couple people off. But it was it was unique, it was a unique stage. Um, some people loved it, some people hated it. There was steel behind the poppers uh because they didn't want to really have skips because that bay was so big, and so you'd hear a nice ring, but uh poppers don't ring like that, folks. Did you hear that bell sound? That's that hardcover steel you were hitting behind it. And then one of the other things was we had some steel no-chutes in the in the shape of uh uh USPSA or IPSC targets. And because we we got to do contrasting colors, we painted them red. So uh we had to we had to announce to everybody that the red hardcover steel was no shoot. Um I don't think that was planned to do right at first, but it got done, so everybody knew that they were no shoots. An inordinate amount of red paint. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_00Oh, my during my pre-match squad, no one hit them. And so on our last stage with them, I was like, yeah, I don't know why everyone's work why they were put those no shoots there, no one's hit them. And some guy goes, one of the guys in the squad goes, Oh, now you cheeks us. And so guess who hit the no shoot? He did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Felt bad.
SPEAKER_01Now they're thinking about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But I don't know how many times they got hit. I like I said, my the squad I had for the pre-match, and we only had that one hit on one of them.
SPEAKER_01So right. Um, but yeah, I think I think during the main match we we had a significant number of hits on them. I'm not sure, but there was I'll just put it this way there's a lot of red paint out there. And when I went back to the range Monday morning, uh they were they were boxing up a lot of red paint. So maybe we didn't use as much, we just put a lot out. So yeah. Yeah, but the frames of the ports were painted red, so they probably touched some of that up, et cetera. But overall, I mean, uh I heard from several people that thought it was a good match. Some of them said they were the best stages ever, and you know, I elected not to shoot it because we just had too much last minute stuff to to do. Um so that was fine. I mean, I didn't really need to shoot it, but I wasn't gonna, you know, make any kind of an outstanding run on it anyway. So save the ammo. But I think the banquet and awards went off well, you know. There was a number of people there. Some people just don't go to it, and uh that's fine too. So but the banquet and awards went well, prize table went well, so went pretty quick. There was a lot of guns on the prize table, and then we had a lot of sponsors that donated things for the staff, which I thought was very nice. Uh Kimber donated uh a gun. Uh Mark Steven donated one of their manual presses, which is a very nice 10-stage press. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and the guy that got it uh doesn't never reload it in his life, right?
SPEAKER_04Oh, go buy a single stage money how to do it first.
SPEAKER_01Well, he came up to me. I was behind one of the prize tables, and he said, Troy, you gotta help me. I said, What? He said, Man, I I never reloaded a round in my whole life, and I won that press. And I said, Well, buddy, I said, If I lived, if I lived closer to you, I would come and help you set it up and and you know teach you how to use it.
SPEAKER_04But demo you're gonna need for the next five years while you're there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I kind of said the same thing. I was like, maybe you want to start with something less than that press, you know. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, he said, Well, I don't even know what I need to get. And he was pulling a prize for himself, and there were some very nice uh brass packages on the prize table, so a big brass donating, you know, uh a big lot of brass. And I was like, Well, you need brass. So I said, That wouldn't be a bad idea. And he's like, Okay, I'm thinking that, you know. Hopefully he drove.
unknownYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, and also he was on staff, so when all the prizes had been distributed, we usually let the staff come pick some, right? Yeah, it's it's mostly what's left as certificates for this, that, and the other. But there was the certificate for Barry's bullets, and I said, You need something. Yeah, you need those two. He did, and I said, You're gonna have to you're gonna be on your own for prep primers and powder. And he was like, Oh, oh gosh.
SPEAKER_00Maybe he needs to start with the reloading manual.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's only the first thing you need to buy is a very good scale. Yes, yeah, and pay attention to that, right? Yeah, otherwise you get a bullet stuck in the barrel or you overcharge it. Either way, you can blow the gun up, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and there's a difference between rifle powder and a pistol powder. And he learned how to reload his pistol, and then he's decided to take up three guns. And so he just was using his you know, you know 14 guns of whatever it was, tiger or whatever in the three, and he kept blowing the barrels up. And uh finally somebody talking to him and figured out that he didn't he didn't realize there was such a thing as rifle powder, just pistol powder.
SPEAKER_01Oh man.
SPEAKER_04He's he's lucky you know get a get a bolt from the craze.
SPEAKER_01But so yeah, it's not like uh I mean, you know, they say cooking is pretty much freestyle, baking needs formulas. Oh absolutely, but in baking you can slide a little bit sometimes on the actual measurements, but not with reload. You're baking a bomb is basically what you're picking.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, very controlled reaction that you're looking for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a little, yeah, you're you're baking a you're baking up a little mini explosion. So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure a lot of people have seen the internet video already of the detonation that happened on stage before it got tossed. Yeah. So PCC shooter ejected his last round, his round out at unload show clear, and it bounced off something on the primer, it's something on the ground, and poop. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so and it looks like the brass goes one way and the bullet bounces another way. I mean, that's a very infrequent thing that when that happens.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, it's pretty low energy. Yeah. Well, yeah, there's no barrel to contain it, so it doesn't go anywhere. But um that's the first time I've ever seen that happen. Or heard about that happening on the range.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um one happened in range. I was it happened behind me. So I didn't see it happen. But I heard it and then I didn't see it happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I heard one at uh at PASSA years ago during the well, it was right after the shoot off. Some some kid had picked up a live round and he was throwing it up in the air and and catching it, and then one time he didn't catch it. But there's lines going on the ground there, right? And it popped in a group of people that were standing there, and and all of a sudden they were just looking the other way.
SPEAKER_05I didn't see air.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's not, I don't, I mean, I don't think that's a safety thing. And it wasn't like he was trying to do any kind of uh you know, big showy flipping catch. He just racked it out and flew up in the air, and it just happened.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I saw some comments on that, and somebody was like, tell me that you're using the softest primers you can find without telling me you're using the softest primers you can find.
SPEAKER_04Well, well, he's doing the old Jerry Mipkilling thing, he's using federal primers and then pre-pre-stressing them a little when he when he seats them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh pre-stressed primers. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it turned out well. We had a lot of help. We had a big staff. Um, we had, I don't know, seven or eight people withdraw over the course of between applying and and going to the match, and um, you know, about four of them at the last minute kind of thing. But I deliberately overstaffed it because they do have big bays there. It's August. You don't know what the weather's gonna be like. Surprisingly, the weather was amazingly uh cool for August. Um quite pleasant a couple of days. And you know, one morning it was 54 degrees. So I don't get 54 degrees in my refrigerator here in the summertime sometimes. I was watching my in my truck as I drove further south yesterday in the day, and it just kept going up.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But all in all, good report. I mean a good match. Oh, good. And uh couple weeks and then we're uh and then we're all getting together in St. George and do it again. Right, back to done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Sounds so enthusiastic, Jimmy. Yeah. The nine days of Nashville they turned into 21 days when you actually counted it up. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So all right.
How The Rangemaster Program Works
SPEAKER_04Um, and also at uh Race Gun, we we uh minted. You want to uh give the results there, Troy?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we did. Um, so we actually had seven Rangemaster candidates, uh, four of whom succeeded and passed the program. So for those of you that don't know what the I'll give you a little background on the Rangemaster instruction program. Years ago, we didn't have a program at all. This is before I got into it. Um, we didn't have much of a program to get Range Masters. It was sort of like, uh, hey, you've been doing a good job. Uh how'd you like to be a Rangemaster? And then they gave them a little OJT and that was it. So now we have a very formalized uh self-study and mentored uh program where you apply and we do that at the end of the year. I think we start taking applications in what December?
SPEAKER_04November 1st, I believe.
SPEAKER_01November 1st, and then in January, we kind of accept or or not accept your application. It sort of depends. Uh we have some criteria that we use, but um you're assigned a mentor, which would be one of the uh 11 instructors that we have now, and it's a self study program that goes through our learning management system, but it also involves you getting involved in some matches in the interim, as maybe a And RM or something. And then it also involves being an assistant RM at nationals. And there's a whole schedule that you ride with every Range Master there. We put you through a chronome section. We put you through stats so that you get an inkling of that. And then we have an oral review that's uh done by the instructors that are present. It's an in-person thing, and then we zoom in in the instructor that couldn't make the match. So it's it's about most people take most of the year to get that done. So in this case, if you started in January, you could you could have finished up in August. So it took about eight months, right? And uh unfortunately not everybody passes it. So you have to do well on the range, you have to do well in the oral interview, and you have to do well with your with your modules and stuff. So uh anyway, out of the seven that we had, which was the biggest group we've ever had to test, and luckily they can get away with the member meeting uh at NASA's, they went to the member information meeting, which they held on August 5th. So we had an extra day uh or extra evening to be able to do that. So we had to split them into two groups because there's no way we could sit there and and interview seven people. We allow 45 minutes for each candidate, and uh man that would have just taken forever. So anyway, to get to the to the announcement, the new raised masters are Romain Salahy, uh Scott Howsworth, uh Mike Larson, and I forget because I'm not looking at a list.
SPEAKER_05That was so long ago.
SPEAKER_01I know I suppose that's it. Um Ramin, Mike Larson, Scott Howsworth, and uh Isaac Starnes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Isaac.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So sorry, Ike, if you listen. Um but yeah, so those are the four that passed, and um the the rest have an opportunity to reapply and and do it again if they if they intend to. So um not everybody, like I said, gets through the program. Not everybody gets to the stage where they can actually go to nationals and and do that job, right? So um it's not easy, but it is a standard, and I think we turned out better Race Masters because of it.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's it for the new RMs. Put them in the Google group.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And the you know, the thing is, you know, we also want to make sure that you know, it's more than just a certification, but we want to make sure we're getting it people who want to do the job, want to be the range master, but also we don't want them to go out there and not succeed. Right. So you know, we look at you know, we look at multiple things, rules knowledge, the personality, the presence, you know, all that stuff that goes into artists.
SPEAKER_01Right. Um one thing we do look at is your online uh persona too. So we do that during the application process and during the program. So if you want to get on the social medias and and be a horse's at the very end, then that's not gonna serve you well. Just to let you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, there have been things. It's the interjected from the program for exactly that. So right.
SPEAKER_01Um he gets on the so on the Facebooks.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So we are looking for people that are gonna be out putting matches, uh not maybe not titling up in your local club and showing them your fancy certificate that we don't print anymore. Um but uh you know we expect you to be out helping helping other matches. Um there's a lot of matches that occur in this nation. Um I I I meant meant to go look the other day and see how many how many four PCs we've processed this year, but it's a bunch. And um, you know, still today, some of those do not have certified range masters. They're using uh experienced CRO as a range master. Uh more and more matches are going to multiple range masters uh because it's just a secure volume of competitors that they're running running through these matches, it's just too much for one person. Plus, if that person falls ill during that match, yeah, you have a range master. Um masters are going to. Um and so you know it's we we expect if there's a match in your area that that maybe you're gonna be able to go help and you know you know be a range master at that match. And uh so that's there's there's there's some expectations to go along with with the title. So it's very rewarding. I've always really enjoyed doing that. And uh so yeah, yeah. So congrats to all four of us doing and uh yeah, Remine was my student, and he was an absolute pleasure to have a student. Um kept me hopping because he would have questions that I'd have to actually think about. So yeah, he's he's a good guy, and I think he's he's gonna be uh a uh dev definite aspect. I think all four of them will be definite aspects of the core. All right.
SPEAKER_05Anything else before we dive into the mailbag? Nope. Alrighty.
Hard Cover Lines And Target Consistency
SPEAKER_04Got a got a question uh the other. I think it came in yesterday or today. I'm seeing clarification regarding the intended hardcover alignment for USDSA slasher cardboard targets, specifically version two and three. And it turns in the version numbers that he's quoting here. This is a target target vendor uh designation. USDSA does not have official designations for a you know, you know, we a pseudo target or an upper eight, you know, you know, a uh upper AC zone only target or you know, you know, the diagonal hardcover, which is what these call calls platform targets. Um we don't really have official designations for those. Uh they're just called by their name. Um what it's looking for um for definitions is that in the 2020 22 competition to understand the requirements, it's containing hardcover minimum and physical scoring and error have not found any any guidance regarding a specific preparation point used to establish the diagonal cover cover uh hardcover boundary. My question is theoretical concerns with geometry of the hardcover line itself. Well, it's good because there that isn't defined in the rules. Uh huh. Um and you will find there there's I've I've found traveling around the country, there's kind of some local variations. And is it is a high point on those folder, the low point on those folder, is it you know a high point on the ways, low point on the ways. And it's it's it's different places do different things in different ways. And the key here is you have to have to be consistent. And if you're using the pre-printed targets, some of the pre-printed targets are pretty good. Some of them there's printing them on a template and they're on a uh on a jig. And so there can be some swap. And so you either have to fix that swap with tape, uh, or you do just sort them to where all of these look like all of those, and that's what you use for target changes. Um the big thing is you have to be consistent from target to target to target every shooter's sees things to target.
SPEAKER_01Right. So yeah, they they they're automatically inked, right? They go through a process, and that there's a little bit of give one way or the other side to side. So let's take what what both CHL targets and action targets calls version one, which is the upper AC, right? So both of them usually get that right, but there's always a little bit of black on the edges of the of the AC zone, right? Going up into the upper AC zone.
SPEAKER_04Or they so they or they swap and you leave a little bit of C C zone uh across the shoulders that's gone.
SPEAKER_01Right, dipping down into the thing. So, you know, if they're all the same, like Kevin said, you don't have to repair them, but the black target paste and tape will work fine for that. Um, but there is no uh specified design for that. All of those versions came from a numbered list that I supplied to action target because their targets were just terrible, right? And I said, Look, guys, can you clean this up? And they said, Well, show us what you want. So I gave them seven or eight of the most common hardcover designs that we use, right? Um the the half if you're doing these at your at your match and you're making them yourself, it's very easy to get that line perfectly straight with a piece of tape and then you paint the part that you want to be hardcovered. Um but if you want to have an A zone, if you want to go use a USPSA target and go halfway down the A, your best bet is to measure it and make yourself a little jig to do it because there are no straight lines across that A zone. And if you're just going on the bottom of the of the letter, of the scoring letter A, um and you're using different manufacturers' targets, that A is not always in the same place.
SPEAKER_04That's not gonna move all over the place.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, even even from the same manufacturer, it can vary.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So if you're doing something horizontal across the target from the going down from the top to the bottom, you should measure, right? Um and it's it's measured like that for using notions and things on on our classifiers, but uh there are no set hardcover things. They just that's their designation. Version one for both action and chl is the upper AC zone, right? Version four is the tuxedo or the zebra or whatever you want to call it, and that's the one we see with a with sometimes with a significant amount of variation.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So for this match, we had for the race gun, we had CHL targets, and we went through and sorted them. And about 50% of the box was a little bit fat on the right side of the A zone. In other words, the black line encroached into the A zone a little bit, it was across the perf. Um, and it was a little lean on the C side. But that still scores. You score where the black line is, you don't score where you think it's supposed to be, right? And so people were quite kind of questioning that. But we did sort them out where everybody got the same target, and the ones that the two or three out of the pack that didn't look the same. Um, and I have to give some credit to CHL because this was the most consistent set of uh hardcover preprinted pre-printed targets that I've seen. Um the ones that just didn't match, we just didn't use them. We the club kept them or whatever. So some were a little off to the right, some were a little off to the left. The diagonals were all pretty good uh because that seems to be an easier line to print, right? Um and you do have a little bit of variation there, but it doesn't really affect the amount of scores all available. So um but I mean I'm gonna date myself a little bit. In 98, I I RM the Area 4 match, and the Area 4 director at the time, Keith Millberger, uh made hardcover on targets that resembled everyday objects, right? So he took a car bumper and he and he made a cardboard cutout and he just painted the target like you were hiding behind a cardboard, like the target was hiding behind a uh a car bumper. Uh he used a stop sign, right? He used the edges of a stop sign and did the same thing. So it doesn't have to be a specific shape. The only rule in the book is is as this guy mentioned, is uh percentage of the age on it has to be available.
SPEAKER_05All right. There you go.
SPEAKER_01Now you know it's not rocket surgery. No, it's not.
SPEAKER_04All
Walkthrough Etiquette Becomes A Penalty
SPEAKER_04right. All right. Uh next question. Uh at a local level one match, the on-deck competitor was doing his walkthrough while a competitor was actively engaged in the course of fire. After the stage was completed, this was addressed with the RO and the competitor bringing up both safety and interference concerns. Since this situation is not referenced in the rules book. Is this an etiquette issue or a rules issue? Yeah, yeah. It's an etiquette issue because it can turn into a rules issue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. If you don't follow the etiquette, you can make it into a rules issue.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah. You can make it into your car and go on home.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's part of a CRO control issue. We should keep people out of there.
unknownYeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04As I told this gentleman, they basically when the range you know the next competitor that's about to shoot the stage, when the when the range is cleared command is given until their range is clear, cleared command is given, that's that stage is theirs. Nobody else gets down there. Should be in there walking around. That shouldn't be walking while they're actively shooting because you don't know that that competitor is going to realize he forgot a target and running back up range, suddenly downrange of the gun, and now we have a problem. Or he realizes he forgot his mags and half full mags he dropped up range that to complete course that he comes running back. And most of us have done that at some point in time in our career. And so it's just stay the heck out of there. And you know, you know, in this case, they they they gave that gentleman a warning. Um if he violated again, the next thing would happen is he would find that he would be implemented an unfortunate conduct penalty. Um that would be the end of it. So uh you know, you know, just you know, you know, as I as I said to this gentleman, uh common common courtesy, which is not so common anymore, is you one one, you know, you you you you give way to the competitor that's about to shoot the stage.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, again, it's a it's an RO control thing for one. You gotta you ought to have somebody back there not letting anybody get on the stage. In fact, we have a a video that I'm the star in in the level one thing where a guy we're not quite done shooting the stage and there's a guy that starts walking.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. And then again, like Kevin said, you could get yourself in trouble. Um because Yaru has enough to worry about with that competitor potentially backing up without worrying about you being in there when you're not supposed to be there. And as far as a warning, we don't really have an official warning, but I can see the the logic and telling the guy, hey, if you do that again, that's your warning. I'm telling you not to get in that shooting area while somebody's shooting, but if I have to tell you again, it's gonna end up with this.
SPEAKER_041061 says failure to follow the commands and range officers. So that would be that would that would be that right there. Um this is another good instant why we we always have two ROs bringing every shooter. Um the guy on the clipboard, Scorpio pad or whatever. I'm old. Shoot me. Um put put your put your uh iPad on the clipboard and put the clipboard.
SPEAKER_03Um but but um um you know you know they also have eyes out and you know they can help help control the traffic.
SPEAKER_04We have a lot of problems with people trying to try to shoot the video and getting on the acting stage. Um shoot the video for the shooter. No. Um that's we're one of the videos in the RO classes. Um photographer who's trying to try to go down the range, uh holding them back because that competitor is about to throw it in reverse and come back up range to go across to the inside. And then that person if we'd allowed that person to go forward, they would have been in it would have gotten run over. So it's it's you know, you know, it's in hospitals who typically have at least three ROs on every stage, and that's the third RO, your your one of your primary jobs is just traffic control. And and making sure that the next competitor you know you know is aware that they are on deck and getting it out, you know, get ready to get going.
SPEAKER_05So that keeps matchflow going. All right. Next one.
Open Door Reset And Reshoot Equity
SPEAKER_04We had a stage of the door, you have to open engage targets on the other side. Well, when I when I approached the door, I noticed it was already wide open. We've we forgot to reset the close it. I paused for a long time looking at the ROs. I didn't know what to do. He kind of motioned to discontinue, but it caused a loss of time for me. And and some some uh and some and some uh my concentration definitely went out the window. Is the zip scenario the same as untake targets? Just keep shooting. Wouldn't an open door give me an unfair advantage?
SPEAKER_00Just freaking stop, people. Yeah, yeah. That's a range equipment failure.
SPEAKER_04Anytime, any anything reset. Um that's any anytime. It's range range equipment failure.
SPEAKER_00But no, steel not set, gizmos not set. If the door was supposed to be closed and it was open, that's not good. Basically, the stage has got to be the same challenge for everyone. Yeah, yeah. And yes, they should stop the guy. We're gonna do this again with the door closed this time.
SPEAKER_04And it doesn't matter if the door activates something or not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sometimes people think, well, if the door doesn't activate anything, it's no big deal.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's it's still something competitor has to do. Um so yeah, yeah, that's you know, make sure you know when we teach the RO class, that the last person up range is an RO, and and part of their duty is coming back up range is to make sure that everything is is that reset, tape, tape, everything is ready to rock and roll. And um and that there's nobody down there tying your shoe behind the wall. Um that's that's you know all those things are are checked before before we start the next competitor. And uh that that's it's important that you do that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So this was obviously uh I mean, I hope this was done at a level one match, even though I I really hate that it happened at a level one match. Uh there was no reshoot, they scored it as is. That's terrible. And for everybody that stops competitive equity, this is an example of competitive inequity.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And just as an interesting point, Jody, I was sitting in the uh live stream of the board meeting tonight, earlier tonight, and I'm wearing my just freaking stop it shirt. And Zach Jones was like, is that a just freaking stop shirt in the in the board meeting? And I said, Yeah, he said, I gotta get one of those.
SPEAKER_00I said, I had a few, I wore mine on Tuesday when we did our walkthroughs, and a few of the ROs were like, Can we buy those? I need to get my Etsy store.
SPEAKER_04There you go. There you go. Get your Etsy store going. Um yeah, yeah, it's I I I I've I've I've got mine already already laying down on the suitcase. So it's it's it's it's definitely going with me.
Gun Cases Pointing Up Range
SPEAKER_04Um is playing up range, is it a DQ? Does it matter if it's before or after the make ready command? Does it matter if the gun is touched or not? This this question came up with a level three match.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this was a steel challenge match.
SPEAKER_05I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And it happens quite a bit at Steel Challenge. Um, you know, some some people are smart and they mark their case and they always put the gun in it the same way. But if you open if you unzip the case and just lift the lid and or unbuckle it or unsnap it, and the gun's pointing up range, and you don't touch it, you don't handle it, you can spin the gun case around and it's fine. Um Presumptedly that gun is empty. We treat every gun like it's loaded, but presumptively it's empty. As long as you don't have it in your hand, right? You're not touching it, you're not handling it. You can't reach in there, pick it up, and flip it over, right?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_01That will earn you a trip to the Dairy Queen. But especially with handguns and steel challenge, everybody almost comes up with their gun in a case, especially the REM fire folks, right? Yeah. So uh if you're shooting a center fire division and your gun's usually holstered, but some people case it after they finish and just go like that, right? So but if it's if it's facing up range and you just crack the case open and look at it, so oops, it's the wrong way, you can flip it back over, spin it around on the table, and and you're fine. Just don't put your hand on it. And it doesn't matter what level match.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Well it's a little concerning that the quick question is probably the level three match. Think they have it out by then. Okay. Um here
Chrono Only Tests What You Declare
SPEAKER_04we go. I got I got lost in the wall of words. I'm aware of the consequences of not making minimum power factors for scoring than declared registration. The question came up when it was sending up the match last night. No one has come up with a role reference to it. Or if an individual measures above the declared power factor in chrono graph, if chrono is at the match, whether they are scored as the declared power factor or the minimum power factor. If someone declares the minimum power factor, major is major and then the score is just as the major scoring, the only difference they see is being intentional. And um it's also gonna play in and L10 and handle unlimited and open, but yeah, whatever. Um where more numbers allowed in the minor scoring, unless for some reason someone alone they registered as minor didn't understand the system. How would one handle that scenario where someone declares a power factor below what they're actually shooting? They shoot what they declared.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Corona only tests what you declare. It doesn't determine what you're gonna shoot.
SPEAKER_04Did you you declare it minor? Did you make 125? Yes, yes. No, no. Oh, you hit 2020? Great. Fun fun with that.
SPEAKER_01That that's that could be an issue though in some in some situations, right? I mean, if carry optics and limited optics are minor only, the vision, so is production. Yeah. So if you make a boo-boo and load your nine millimeter a little hot, right? Or a lot hot um and you're shooting major, you're still scored as minor because there's no provision to move up.
SPEAKER_04Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Right. His point about revolver single stack is is valid.
SPEAKER_05Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_01Right? But it still doesn't matter. We're not even if you're shooting major in revolver, we're still and you and you have an Hot revolver and you declare minor, you're still gonna score minor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just gonna be a little bit harder on you.
SPEAKER_04You kind of want to get caught and you get to go play an open.
SPEAKER_00Well, this is why it's important that you know what power effect you're shooting at registration if you're shooting in a division that has major and minor.
SPEAKER_05Correct.
SPEAKER_04Yep, yep.
Why Ladies Only Matches Break Rules
SPEAKER_04Okay. Um got this email today. Uh just got a request to run a special ladies-only level level one match this winter. This seems to go directly against rule six. But is there a way to do something like this? I can run a two-factor, but that seems weak. Similar to doing an LEO or military-only match, but they're different. What's what say you?
SPEAKER_01It's not really that different. So 643 says you can't exclude people based on uh religion, race, gender, or occupation, right? So ladies only is would be gender exclusive and it's not allowed. It's it doesn't matter what level it is, that there's no exemption for that. Um you can't do it for LEO or military either, right? Um and if you gotta run a match like that, uh please don't put USPSA on it anywhere because we we don't we don't have recognized matches anymore. Um that's a thing that they used to do years ago for matches that had some slight variations and wanted to use our rule set to a degree, but uh most of those variations were just stage uh design things, like yeah, yeah, having to roll the dice. And if you got a six, you had to start on T6 or something like that, right? Uh a weird thing, not strictly against the rules, but just a gaming kind of circusy thing. Um or you wanted to run 60-round stages. I mean, level one, you could certainly do that, but you know, a lot of people aren't gonna shoot 10 60-round stages in a day. So um, but yeah, you can't say law enforcement only or military only and associate USPSA with it because I've I've seen some that you know wanted to do different things rules-wise, and it's you're already violating the uh that's kind of a primary directive there, right? That we're open to everybody. You can't you can't do that. So even though some people have tried to compare it to nationals, right? Well, you only let in people that have won SWATs. Yes, we do, but we also have open registration, so it's open to everybody that did not wear a s win a SWOT, but that is uh a performance-based thing, right? And we're not discriminating on uh race, religion, uh gender, or occupation. So it's just a different thing. Uh you could run an invitational match um where people get invites to do it. That's not necessarily exclusive by those four rules either. Um, so you know you can also have a few open entries for that as well, and then you know, if anybody's concerned about it, well, you did have open entries, but ladies only not gonna work under USPSA rules.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, there used to be a military veterans match that veterans got to shoot for free, but it was open to everybody.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04Um, and you could you can do things like that, you know. You know, it's uh um you can have a ladies' ladies' special match that was open for everybody. Um it's gonna be just like ladies' night at the bar. There's there's gonna be four ladies there and a hundred guys, but you know, you know, that's just just the way it tends to work out. Um you know, you know, but you know, you can uh at least all the ladies' nights are bars I ever went to when I was in college.
SPEAKER_03Where's all the ladies? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04They know enough, they're all there's other bars and they know that you need to appear. Um so so any anyhow, um I mean my recommendation we would be run it as hit factor.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um you can use USPSA like rules, but hell, make your own. Just don't say you're using USPSA like rules.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, don't don't stand it like that. But I mean our rule book is published, but it's also copyrighted and trademarked, right?
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_01So that's the that's the problem with calling it a USPSA match. But if you were to say cut and paste rules out of the PDF and then change a few to suit yourself and call it the I don't know, I don't know what the hell you'd call it, the roadrunner and coyote match. Um then we can't really prevent that. And a lot of to be honest, a lot of the disciplines that are out there use some variation of some of our rules, right? Right, right. Because I mean, why would they reinvent the wheel, you know?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Well used used used to be you'll go to a lot of matches and they say uh USPSA rules for everything except scoring.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00USPSA safety rules.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well that was when you got to brag about your 12-page rule book because the first page said all USPSA safety rules.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_01So you actually had to have two rule books to be able to do it, you know. That's awesome. But I mean that it just it's just a that's another just freaking stop. I mean, yeah, don't do it.
SPEAKER_05Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_01And I agree with you, Kevin. I think you had a levels only, ladies only, you know, special entry fee for ladies only, you get more guys than you get ladies probably.
SPEAKER_00So it's a just a normal USPSA match then. Yeah, yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_01So there's yeah, there's there's any number of ladies' matches that are run out there, but they're not run necessarily under USPSA rules or somebody else's discipline. And I have no idea what the Galactic Pistol Association has for rules about that or PC. Galactic Pistol League. Is that a GPL? I thought it was GPA. Anyway. Is that like uh can Marvin the Martian participate in that?
SPEAKER_00Oh sorry, Galactic Pistol Alliance. Oh Alliance, okay.
SPEAKER_01I thought it was an A. Galactic Pistol Alliance or PCSL or IDPA. I mean, I'm not I'm not crapping on any of those guys, but I don't know what their rules are.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So they may be able to do that under that rule set. I don't know. Yeah. All right, all right.
SPEAKER_04Well we didn't make the rule the list because they came in too late. And I think most of this together before I left this this morning this morning. Um but we had a question uh I think I think you guys talked about while I was off riding around, uh which involved uh confusion about facing down range, I believe. So you want
Facing Downrange Starts Done Right
SPEAKER_04to go into that?
SPEAKER_01Sure. So the the poster sent it in and quoted the definition of facing down range, which is anywhere within the 180-degree arc, right? And question is should it match uh the facing up range definition? And the answer is no, but it does say that you can if it just simply says facing downrange, not facing directly downrange or or making you face something else downrange, uh if it just says facing downrange, then you can be turned with your body and and feet and head towards either side of that 180 degree arc, right? Um what you can't do is you can't be turned uprange, right? Because it does limit you to that 90 degree line and you can't have your head turned looking back uprange. And the point I made was if you have a stage where you're you're all the way downrange somewhere, and a facing downrange start, and you gotta move back uprange immediately, that's a bad course, right? That's a bad course design.
SPEAKER_00Your ROs are gonna hit you.
SPEAKER_01So there's no reason for you to be looking back uprange, right? Now you may be planning to move a little bit up range depending on the layout of the thing, but you still can't be turned facing that way. You have to be at the 90 or at the 180. And it was you certainly have to have your gun down range of that 90 degree or 180 degree line before you draw it, right? Otherwise you're gonna be drawing up range, and that's not gonna be good. You break the 180. So it's pretty simple, and I mean most people get it. Uh I don't know. I never thought there'd be confusion about that, but and then I think the follow-up was something about where your eyes could be looking, and I'm not gonna police where your eyes look, but if your body's on a 90 or or a downrange of it, then you're fine.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Just like we talked about uprange earlier, downrange is pretty loosely defined, but there are limits, and that's that 90 degree line.
SPEAKER_05All right.
Travel Season And Where To Send Questions
SPEAKER_05Well that's that's all we had on the list. Um anybody have anything else? No. Try I got nothing. All right.
SPEAKER_01Well, well, we have a lot of stuff to do, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04Well, well, let's see. You and you and I are out this weekend for classes.
SPEAKER_00I'm home. I'm gonna try to work on the chrono endorsement.
SPEAKER_04So then I think you said you're off you're doing a class and you're off the Arkansas sectional uh company and then traveling west to go to uh St. St. George, Utah for uh Patrick Nationals. Yeah, I'm headed to Boulder, Colorado for a class. And then we'll be home for a weekend and then headed to also headed to St. George.
SPEAKER_01So the People's Republic of Boulder.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's where Mike Bain lives. Y'all look him up. Yeah, yeah. So and then after Factory Gun, I think I got a day and a half turnaround and I'm going to Greece for the shotgun world shoot.
SPEAKER_04Just enough enough time to get clothes washed.
SPEAKER_05If that. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be interesting. No drug.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm staying in a condo in St. George that has a washer dryer in it, so should be able to keep up with that. I shouldn't come home with too many dirties. Yeah. I probably shouldn't come home with too many dirties.
SPEAKER_05Whether you do or not, is a whole other thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. All right.
SPEAKER_04Well, well, with that, thank you, everybody. And as always, if you have questions, comments, whatever, uh send them to rules at uspstay.org and we'll get an answer back to you. It is mat season, as you just heard. We're all all going seven different directions. So um it may take a little bit to get an answer back to you, but we will get an answer back to you.
SPEAKER_03And uh with that, we'll see you in two weeks.
SPEAKER_04Bye bye, y'all.
SPEAKER_05Bye.
SPEAKER_04Goodbye. Are you looking to take your first range officer class? Maybe you're looking to upgrade to chief range officer or audit a seminar to brush up on your rules knowledge. The complete list of upcoming classes can be found by following the link to find NROI seminars under the NROI tab at USPSA.org. No class is near you. Your club can sponsor an NROI seminar. Follow the request seminar link under the NRI tab at USPSA.org.