Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:04

This is the NROI podcast. Your source for factual information for USBS Day and SDSA competition. This podcast is brought to you by the National Range Oxford Institute, United States Fractual Chooting Association, and Steel Challenge Coding Association. All world looks can be found at USBSD.org slash rules, STSA.org slash rules, and on the USBS Day and SDSA apps available in your Apple App Store and Google Play Store. All rates for this podcast are reserved. No portion of this podcast may be used or redistributed without written permission from the director of the National Ranked Obsters Institute. Role discussions on this podcast do not constitute an official ruling. Discussions on this podcast are meant to inform and educate. The only official rulings are published as per the bylaws of the United States Practical Shooting Association. Questions about rules could be emailed to rules at USPSA.org. This is episode 101, recorded early June 2026. Well, hello everyone. Welcome to the NRI podcast. I'm Kevin Owell, and with me tonight, as usual, are my co-host, Troy McManus. Good evening, Troy.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Good evening.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

And Jody Heyman. Good evening, Jody. Good evening. All right. Well, we've broken the century mark, and uh now we have five more years before we hit episode 200. So you know, when we did episode number one, uh, which is kind of humorous to go go back and listen to, um, I don't think any of us ever thought we were gonna get to 100 episodes and um it kind of snuck up on us. So anyway, that's that's pretty cool.

Pre Match Range Officer Volunteer Plan

SPEAKER_01 1:44

So uh right, Tori and Jody, either one of you have any announcements?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

I have a couple. Um first off, we're gonna be sending out an application to local people to Southern Utah Shooting Sports Park and Hurricane, Utah for local people to be pre-match range officers. You have to be certified, you have to be able to drive back and forth every day. We're not covering lodging. Um, if I'm sure we'll get enough local people to do it, but if you're from far away and you want to do your own lodging and still volunteer for that, well, we'll probably tell you, but uh, we kind of tend to focus on our local folks with that. So that application is gonna get emailed to people within about 100-150 mile radius of the shooting sports park there, and that's in the works from USPSA. So it's a very simple job form, it just gives us gets us the information we need for that. And then we'll we only need about 15 people, so uh we'll pick out of the applications we get. The benefits are the same as for the for the main match uh staff. You get a $400 travel allowance. So if you're driving back and forth, that should cover your uh mileage for that. Uh you get uh $30 a day per diem for the two days that you work. You get uh to attend the banquet, the staff meal, all that stuff. You get a staff gift like everybody else. Um, you get jerseys if you need them, the only thing and a free entry into the main match. The only thing you don't get is lodging covered. So um it saves USPSA a little bit of money and hassle. And uh what you will be if you get selected is an embedded range officer with a squad of competitors. Um you're not gonna shoot this the pre-match, you're gonna just nothing but RO all day long. You do have to attend the pre-match uh uh walkthrough, the walkthrough that we do before the match starts, so that you're familiar with how all the stages are and how they'll be run. Uh, if you can't make that, you can't be on that that uh staff group. So that's gonna be it for that. Uh I am not moving anybody from main match staff to pre-match staff, so don't bother to ask. Uh, we got a lot of requests like that for race gun, but when you signed up for that, you signed up to work the to shoot the pre-match and work the main match. So not trying to shuffle people around for that. Plus, it messes with uh slots, etc., and there just aren't any more. So no slots left. Big big wait list for both matches.

NASO Membership Link And Benefits

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Uh, second announcement a couple weeks ago, we had Ken Kester on, the guy from the National Association of Sports Officials. Uh, they have built a web page for people to join and renew. Um, all of this will be under the USPSA umbrella, so to speak. So if you are a certified uh range official, you can log into the USPSA webpage. On your profile, there should be a link that says join NASO. Uh, it's going to be password protected, just like the one for jerseys is. So only certified people will have the password. You can sign in and uh go to their webpage. It's half price for membership. Um, we covered a lot of this in the last podcast, but they do a very impressive uh liability insurance package. They do a lot of uh non uh actual practice uh officiating training like interpersonal skills, uh, you know, HR issues, uh harassment, stuff like that. Uh they have a lot of that online that you can train with. They have a lot of information in their magazine and and in their digital magazine, which all the every uh USPSA RO member will get the digital magazine. Uh it helps them save on the on the shipping and printing costs. But they have a lot of information in there that is relevant to uh officiating in any sport. So, you know, if that's your thing, pay attention to that. And uh you can pick stuff up, pick up some tips and tricks like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

And then um, and so I'm assuming that when we do get the URL for this, we will advertise it in the downrange or yeah, it's gonna be in the NROI Facebook page or something.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, all over every place that we can publish it, we're gonna publish it.

unknown 6:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

So I have that right now. Uh it's just not uh on our web page yet. So that's coming up pretty soon. So he just sent it to me today. So uh I I talked about it in a staff meeting today. Rick's aware of it. I told him we need to get it done, and I'll I'll send him all the stuff we have. So it shouldn't be a big deal for them to set that up. Um so anyway, that's coming.

Nationals Prep And WSSC Recap

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Um preparation for multi-gun nationals is is in the works. Uh we're not actually doing any staffing for that that's gonna be done from the uh contracted club up at Forest Lake in Minnesota. The MD for that has changed. The new MD for that is Tim Dundry, and I believe uh Kevin Hartman is helping him up there. And I'm still looking forward to a great match. If you're in a multi-gun, it's gonna be a hit factor match. They're also building in a rifle qualifier as part of the match. So that's gonna be uh obviously stages with some IPSC flavor, which is gonna qualify for the World Shoot and Rifle, which is gonna be in Mongolia in I want to say 2028. I think so. So if you're interested in going to Mongolia and shooting rifle, then there you are. I don't know. I haven't even looked to see how you actually get there, but there's gotta be a way to get there, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

I suspect it's a long trip. It's not all that far from here, but I bet it's a long trip.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah, I suspect you're right. So anyway, uh, but that's coming up. We're we're working on staffing uh assignments, etc. for the we just uh just approved the stages for race gun. Uh we're gonna send those out to the range masters for that match so everybody can take a look at them, and then we'll we'll start working on staffing for that. I think we have a meeting coming up on the 10th. So we'll get that knocked out and factory gun, of course, is following that, so and we're working on that as well. So uh everybody staying busy. Um answering a bunch of questions. We just completed the World Speed Shooting Championship match at Talladega, at CMP in uh Talladega in Alabama that went off very well. 790 guns, something like that. So quite an impressive number of people. There were a lot of people in the in the Wednesday match that were just competitors. Um practice base stayed busy. Weather was crap, but you know, we got through it. If it wasn't raining, it was hot and humid. So CMP. Yeah, so Alabama in in May. Yeah. So yeah. Uh I mean, heck, the heat index here where I live in Baton Rouge was 100 most of those days, and I I guarantee you it was that much in in uh Alabama when the sun was shining and all that rain was cooking off. Oh boy. But it went well. I don't think there were any world records set, but there was a lot of very impressive stage times in there. And so there were some new winners of divisions, people that haven't won before. Um, so turned out pretty well. A lot of junior shooters uh had a pretty good sponsor area. There was a lot of good stuff in there, so uh always always a good match. Um very few safety issues, you know, typical steel challenge kind of thing, not not too many DQs, no scoring calls really. So it went well.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

All right. Okay, anything else?

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Hearing nothing, we'll go ahead and get on with the uh the uh agenda.

Steel Challenge 30 Second String Entry

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Um we've had some questions recently regarding Steel Challenge, which is timely. We should have done this before the World Speed Tuting Championship, but hey, we got just got the question the other day. Um and data entry and how to handle um not the non-normal run, we'll call it that. So where somebody's gonna get just give me 30 um type thing. And Jody, is you're our kind of our practice score expert. You gonna kind of walk through that? Maybe. Uh that'll teach you to become an expert on something.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Well, I haven't done as much steel challenges as I've done USPSA. But usually, so steel challenge, you know, each string you can put a time in, you can put the penalties, and of course, all the penalties in steel challenge are time, right? Missplate is all the procedural penalties, missed plate, three seconds. Uh missed off plate is the 30-second penalty. And the max time you can get on any string in steel challenge is 30 seconds. So the scenario we got the question on was uh the guy shot a couple plates, had a malfunction, couldn't get his gun cleared. So he had like a time of 1.3 or something on the timer. And he just told the RO to give him a 30, which means a missed stop plate. And so the RO entered the scorekeeper just entered a 30-second penalty. And then the guy was questioning the master director about why it didn't record his time as well. Right. And you could put a time in and you could put the 30-second penalty in, and no matter what, that strange is gonna show us 30 seconds. Right. I mean, definitely if you put the miss stop plate in, you should also put misses for the other plates that were never shot, too. But no matter what how many you enter, it's gonna max out at 30 seconds. Right. So I see the competitor's argument that to be truly accurate, they should put his time in plus the 30-second penalty.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

But in reality, it doesn't really matter what once you put that 30-second penalty in. 30 seconds is what you're gonna have on that screen.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Right. It does show those times on the on the results. But I mean 30 seconds is 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Yeah. So to be thorough, you should do that. You should put the time and the 30-second penalty.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

But it's not gonna change the final score on the extreme.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Well, if you're using a Bluetooth-linked timer, it should pick those up anyway.

unknown 12:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Well if you press the button to sync it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

If it's not auto-syncing, you'd have to press the button. Right. Yeah, you have to press the button.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So, yeah, so all right. So there you go. Um, off

Battle Belts And Securely Fixed Rule

SPEAKER_01 12:48

into the questions. This this guy sent in two good questions and I split them up because they aren't totally related. Um, recently I've been at several local matches where competitors were wearing battle belts that were not attached to the belt or loop through the pants. When questioning, several ROs made the point of rule 5.2.3 specifically, the belt or the inner belt or both must either be securely fixed at the waist or secured with the minimum three belt loops. While not specifically stating a battle belt, if the belt is securely fixed at the waist, is this sufficient to allow a competitor to shoot? And conversely, if true, is a is an inner belt even needed. I forget who answered this one.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

I did. Um well, so the the key, a lot of people get hung up on the three belt loops part of that rule. Um, because that used to be you had to have three belt loops.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah, that used to be the rule.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Used to be the rule, but then we changed it to be securely fixed at the waist or secured with a minimum of three belt loops.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

And if you look at the definition of securely fixed in the glossary, appendix A3, it basically says the competitor should be able to draw a holster or a magazine from a pouch without the belt moving and only use one hand. So if they have to hold go, you know, hold the mag holster, holster, holster to draw the gun, um, then it's not securely fixed. Right. And the easy way to test this is you take them over to the safety area, ask them, don't ask them to draw a magazine out of the holster pouch. Don't do the out of the mag pouch.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Don't it doesn't matter, you're DQ, bye.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Not in the safe area, but you could ask them to do it somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Right. You can ask them to do that outside the safe area. But if you want to practice them drawing the gun, take them to the safety area, ask them to draw their gun and see if they need two hands.

unknown 14:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

And as long as the belt's not moving a ton, or they don't have some crazy retention on their holster, they should be able to do that. And from what I remember, this we've discussed this as instructors, this rules change because up in the winter in the northern states, people like to wear snow pants.

unknown 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

And they lack insulation and they lack some belt loops on those. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Um and in the south, in the summer, they wear gym shorts.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

So I've got gym shorts that have belt loops.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, most of the people I see don't do it, but it just has to be securely fixed. And the key word is ore. Yeah. Um, a lot of people misread that to think that it has to be three belt loops. The other thing about battle belts is there's a there's a belt on the battle belt that actually holds the gun. So that's the belt that you're gonna reference for height to belt and distance from belt, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

The entire battle belt. Got the cover. Right, right. The inside part is is that. So and then there's no requirement for an inner belt at all. But the battle belt is is uh the belt, and then it has a belt built onto it that actually holds your gun and your and your mags and stuff. So that's the belt you're gonna reference.

unknown 15:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yeah, especially with the uh these ratchet belts that a couple companies are making. You can cinch those hom-do operas way down. And you do not need, you know, you might you might need help taking your breath, but um, yeah, they they go they go down really tight and you just you know they aren't moving.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

So right. Well, yeah, like Jody pointed out though, it's the the keyword is or. Yeah. So securely fixed is securely fixed. If it doesn't end up under their armpit and they don't have to hold hold it with two hands to draw the gun, then they're good to go.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah, gone are the days of the endless threads on Brian Enus about three belt loops. Yeah. And there were there were many.

Holster Hoods Versus Optic Dust Covers

SPEAKER_01 16:49

All right. And his next question is second question is same scenario about hoods on holsters. If the hood is just a dust cover for an optic, such as the safety mechanism does not disengage the hood when pressed, does the hood need to be down before commencing shooting? I know there are several posts from Jody from 2020 about them needing to be down, but there are some holsters where the hood is disengaged by the safety mechanism, and I'm not sure that these are the same. And then they sent us pictures and did a really good job of pointing various pieces and parts out.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Yeah, and I realized I never answered him back, but I was waiting to see what you and Troy said.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Um, but I need to look up this holster because I'm pretty sure that hood that he says was removed before coming to the line.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Unless he physically removed it from the holster.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, it looks like the that is a a safety strap or whatever we want to call it, a hood. And it looks like he said he took it off, which is okay. You can take it off.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Yeah, if he takes it off. Yeah, but then the question is on the little optical.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

The thing that just covers, yeah. If all it is, is how does that work? Cover for an optic.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

I think it just the action of drawing the gun flips it out.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Oh, flips it out. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah. I mean, if all that is is a cover, that's no different than I mean, I've got a little thing that I I can put on my Seymour that's a rain cover that has a little clip that I clip to the you know, the belt or whatever, so that when I draw the gun, it pulls the rain cover off of the Seymour. Yes, because I'm a dinosaur and I still use a Seymour and Open Gun. Um and uh, you know, so that's that's analogous. It it doesn't, it's not as as long as it's not keyed into the safety aspects of things, I I don't know that we should care. But you know, if it's like a level two retention holster and that hood is part of you know the safety of that holster, then it does need to be done.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah, I think maybe the key to this whole question is whether pressing the button releases that or not, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:57

You said it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So we may have to so yeah, I mean, it's it's and get hands on with it.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Well, so I mean the thing is if that if the hood was taken off completely the the main hood.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

The level two hood.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

The level two hood was totally removed from the holster. Great.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Um as far as the optic one, if it doesn't like actuate when you press the button.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

It it doesn't make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

I like Kevin's idea, just walk up and start flipping stuff around on some guy's holster. Hey, how does this work? Click, click, click, click, click.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Oh, hey, look, your gun's on the ground. Here, let me put that over. No, I'd like to find one though and get hands-on with it and and actually see what it really is. Because it's an intriguing in intriguing thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

I think I've seen it at matches, but I think the match I was at, the people just flipped it up because it doesn't hinder their draw, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

So it never was an issue.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah, I think it's just people trying to keep dust and rain and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

It's like what Christian Siler puts a golf ball or not a golf ball, ping pong ball?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

On his optic at make ready to keep the rain off of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Well, I just like that little thing. And then when he draws, the ball falls off. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Plus, you have golf yeah, ping pong balls to do beer pong after the mat. Yeah. I mean, he's a he's a good UW kid. He knows all about beer pong. Um I think he's gradu.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

I think he's graduated now.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

But yeah, but yeah. I doubt he's forgotten.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

No.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Uh

Question Of The Month Answer Schedule

SPEAKER_01 20:56

all right. Oops. Let's see. Uh the next one's specifically for Jody. Um, you know what's really annoying about your question of the month in USPSA downrange email? You never give the answer. As a new he really was shouting. All caps. All caps and three exclamation marks. As an illuminated RO, I really would like to know the answers. And he went on at length. Um, Jody, you did a fabulous job answering. Um, you want to kind of summarize and repeat that?

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Okay, so here's the deal. Every, every, so like for instance, we're recording this podcast on the 2nd of June. But the first Thursday of the following month. So, like in this case, the May question of the month is going to be answered on what is it, June 4th? The first Thursday of the month. Is when we get the answer. And yeah, our titles of our posts are question of the month, question of the month results, they're whatever the subject of the question was. Um, but we also tag all of the question of the month results in a separate category on our blog. So if you go, there's a blog archive page that has all the categories separated. You can go and click click on that category and see all the results posted from the question in the month. And then also the downrange email, you know, yeah, eventually it's not on the same schedule as when our blog posts publish. So the best way to get those results, you know, sent to you directly without all the other distractions in the downrange newsletter is to go to NRI.org and subscribe to our mailing list. We don't spam you. You only get an email every Thursday about 7 a.m. Pacific. Um, it takes a while for the email server to send out everything, but that's when the post publishes publishes. Um, and you'll get an email with a link just to that post every week. Um, to me, that's probably the best way. Um we've had occasional issues with the email system program not working, but we usually people let us know when we get it fixed. Um, but that's probably the best way to get it. Um, we do publish them. We try to do our best. But um I would recommend subscribing to our blog mailing list directly rather than waiting for the downrange email to come out.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

We've got about 1800 subscribers to that. So I've been noticing.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

And we have like a 60% read rate, which is great, really good.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, and I've been noticing that the cron job's not finishing until into the evening now. So yeah, yeah. Um yeah, I suspect it's not a real high priority cron job.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

So I think it does 30 every year.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Well, and that's the thing with you know you're sending email because people put throttles to avoid you know, large volume spammers, we're kind of throttled as to how many emails it can send, and then it has to kind of twiddle its thumbs for a little bit and then send the next bat. Otherwise, we keep getting flagged for spammers. So um so yeah. Um, the that newsletter may end up in your junk folder. So when you finally find one, um, go add it to your approved list or your contacts list or whatever, and that'll get it through.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

When you do sign up for the NROI newsletter, it is a double opt-in. So you sign up on the website and then it sends you an email with a link that you have to click. Yeah. Um, we're we do that to prevent robots from subscribing. So um make sure that you click that, otherwise you're not gonna be fully subscribed, I guess. You'll be pending. And I don't think it sends you the email.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah, the other thing with this is we we don't publish it. I mean, a newsletter letter comes out every week. We don't publish the answer every week, just for fun, right? You gotta wait. The question of the month.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, we're not going to question of the week.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Um you know, I especially when yesterday I was like, yesterday I was like sitting here and I'm like, oh, I'll I'll put up the new question of the month tomorrow morning when I write the post. And then I was like, shit, today's June 1st. I need to get the question up.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, it kind of snuck up on us.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yeah, I can't believe it's June already.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

So yeah, for sure. All right.

Rimfire Optics Swap And Sight Legality

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Um all right. Uh this would be a steel challenge question. I was wondering if it is possible to use the same REM fire rifle for both optics and iron sights by removing the optic when needed, or if I would be required to have two separate rifles for each setup. Can you please clarify this for me?

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

So you can take them off. You know, you you obviously can't go take it off while you're shooting. It's got to stay on there if it's if you started with it, it's got to stay on. But you can certainly take the optic off and then shoot in the onside category or in the onside division. Um I mean, why why wouldn't you want to have two separate rifles, right? That's just wrong thinking, man.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

So if so, if you were trying to get the answer to show your wife that you need another rifle, yes, you need a separate rifle. Yes, you need a separate rifle. And word to the wise, if you're gonna do that, start with your optic, shoot the optic first, because unless you have the ability to put that optic on and go make sure that it's still zeroed, you your first couple strings may be a little funky while you figure out where that rifle's hitting. So um, you know, with the with modern mounts, I know for my rim fire pistol, I can flip the optic on and off, and as long as I get it back in the same place, it's pretty close. And but you know, don't trust it, but you know, shoot optic first and then then shoot irons.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

So that's my I heard somebody had a WSSC, but I didn't see it and it was too late because I was asked about it like a day later. Um you know that that uh site that has the it's a it's a clear piece of plexiglass with a uh fiber optic embedded in the middle of it. Yeah, it's an open ring.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

And we we for years we've said that that's considered an optic because they call it a lens. Right. Uh they do make one that's legal to use, it's just got a small bar of uh loose light or whatever it is across. It's not a complete uh piece in there and it has the fiber optic in it. Uh they were asking about it mainly for use in multi-gun stuff, but I think somebody shooting irons, uh Renfire Irons had a system like that. But of course, the RO that asked me about it was just asking out of curiosity. He just let the guy shoot. So I never saw it. I'm not sure that that, I'm not positive that that's what they had because the description was kind of vague, but that is not considered an iron or an iron or an open site. It's considered an optic because the company markets it as a lens. So be careful what you put on your gun, even if it looks pretty cool. And I'm trying to remember the name of it, but um uh I can't remember the name of the company or the site, but uh we'll we'll make sure that it's known that that's not legal for iron-sided guns.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

All right.

Illegal Poppers And Activator Plates

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Um let's see. I recently came into possession of one of the poppers known as a proper popper from MGM targets. I looked in the rules and it does say that the width of the base is five inches up to eight, I believe, on a large popper. I'm reading that the calibration zone, which is the scoring zone, is still the same. Is this skinny-legged proper popper USPSA legal? And if not, how do we get it so that it can't I can use it because I think it'd be fun to shoot in a mat? Torah, I think you answered this one.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah, no, and you can't. So it's not legal because it doesn't meet the dimensions, right? And um, starting to make stuff like that legal is just gonna lead to a huge slippery slope on what people will put out there. So we're not even really gonna consider about it. Um there have been some questions about some that are that are skeletonized on the bottom, right? But I mean, if you consider the the picture of a popper in the rule book and the dimensions, all of that popper is strikable and almost all the way down to the base in a lot of cases. If you hit it in the, you know, on the shaft down there, it'll go down, right? So if you cut holes in it, you're taking away a piece of a target that would otherwise legally be there for somebody. And if you make this skinny little leg, uh then you got the same problem, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Um I doubt that we change that that type of popper because it's just like I said, like I answered this this fella, it's a huge slippery slope to start changing things like that. Yeah, so you want to buy them and practice at your home range or whatever, knock yourself out. But they can't be used in a match.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Yeah, I think people are doing that to make them lighter to carry around.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Oh, yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

You know, and so it's uh and it doesn't take as much material, but all right. Um kind of on the same vein, um, are steel swinger activators a scorable target? And what these are is it's a a bar of steel that you you set the weight, the activating weight for a swinger on. And in part way down that bar is a small uh rectangle or square or a circle of steel. Um kind of looks like a plate, but it's not really plate, an official plate size. And so the idea being that you have to shoot this uh stick out from underneath the popper to activate the popper. And these have been around for a while, probably at least five, six years. And we've we've never said they're legal, I don't believe. I think we've always said they're not legal, and we don't we don't really have anything that requires you to shoot it to act shoot at something to activate something. And it's not a legal target to begin with, because what if you don't what if you don't hit the square?

SPEAKER_02 31:33

We had a whole course in our month on that recently.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yeah, so yeah, that's right, we did.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

I mean, even though the dimensions on that hexagonal plate are are could be correct, right? You still got the upper and lower legs on it, which are not, which changes the whole dimensional thing, and and if you hit that, then it doesn't count. It'd be just like shooting a wooden brake stick that people use if you shoot that stick and knock it down.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

And then the argument has been made that, well, we'll just paint the we'll paint the legs black and leave the other part white. Yeah, well, they're still there, right? You can still hit them. You can still hit them. And then the other the time that I have seen it used, which was atrocious, was um this mask that had been sanctioned just decided to to use one because their other mechanism wasn't working and they painted it black and called it hard covered. But you still had to shoot it. Um we don't make you shoot at stuff that doesn't count, right? Yeah. Uh so if you're not getting points for shooting it, we're not gonna require you to shoot at it. But this you obviously did. So I mean that's that's a big problem there. So uh yeah, those those aren't those aren't legal. I mean, if you used it hooked to something and it and it was used as the prop stick and it got pulled off by a popper or a stockbox, it would be great. You could certainly use it for that, but you can't shoot at it.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah, exactly. So so yeah, yeah, there are even pictures of it on the question of the month blog post. If you are not sure what we're talking about. Okay, uh next.

LMS Access And Upside Down Targets

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I need my LMS password learning management system, uh, N ROI learning management system. Uh password reset. I seem to have lost the password. And for unless you're a range master student, you don't have a you don't really have a password. Um the range master students do use the system with a password. For everybody else, you get there from your USPSA profile um or from the USPSA website. You you go to the NROI tab, go to learning system NROI learning system, click there, that will take you in. There's a pass-through uh logon from the NROI or from USPSA. USPSA. So yeah, you don't need if you get to the login screen, that means probably means you timed that you were in there. Yeah, that's what happens. Yeah. Um so you just go back to USBSA.org, go to your the learn NROI learning system, click on the link, and I'll take you right back in. And yes, if you're in the middle of a of a uh a seminar pre-work assignment, it remembers where you were and you can pick right back up if you're in the middle of an exam, um, which is a different system, but that you can, if you stop in the middle, it does remember where you were and you pick right back up. So you don't have to do the marathon to to do your test. All right. Um last question. Can you tell me if there is a specific rule prohibiting shooting upside-down USPSA targets in a course of fire? If not, is it considered prohibited based simply on appendix B?

SPEAKER_02 34:49

No, you can hang them at any angle.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah. We used to call them hanging ninjas back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

The only targets where we have a rule are scoring Ipsic targets.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

They can't be angled more than 45 degrees.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

But USPSA targets, yeah, you can hang them upside down. I think some of the newer classifiers have them hung upside down.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Oh yeah. In fact, if you're doing double stacks, it's smarter to hang them upside down. You're gonna use it as a separator. Yeah, we hang them upside down all the time.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah, it's it's widely done. So all right, well, that's all the questions we had in the hanging out in the email. Um so anybody got anything else?

SPEAKER_03 35:47

I can't think of nothing. Jody? Uh no, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

All right.

Closing Notes And Seminar Info

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Well, then thanks to you both, and we'll go ahead and put this one in the can and get it edited and out for the folks on Monday. Thanks everybody for tuning in and send us those questions to rolls at uspsa.org. And uh we'll probably the way things have been going, we'll probably use your question here on the air. Um, we do have some guests coming in probably for the next episode, but we'll try and still get to a few questions. And so we'll see you then. Thank you very much. Good night. Good night. Are you looking to take your first range officer class? Maybe you're looking to upgrade to chief range officer or audit a seminar to brush up on your rules knowledge. The complete list of upcoming classes can be found by following the link to find NRY seminars under the NROI tab at USBSA.org. No class is near you. Your club can sponsor an NRY seminar. Follow the request seminar link under the NRY tab at USBSA.org.