Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_05 0:04

This is the NROI podcast, your source for factual information for USPSA and SPSA competition. This podcast is brought to you by the National Range Officers Institute, United States Practical Shooting Association, and Steel Challenge Shooting Association. All rolebooks can be found at USPSA.org slash rules, STSA.org slash rules, and on the USPSA and STSA apps available in your Apple App Store and Google Play Store. All rights for this podcast are reserved. No portion of this podcast may be used or redistributed without written permission from the director of the National Range Officers Institute. Rules discussions on this podcast did not constitute an official ruling. Discussions on this podcast are meant to inform and educate. The only official rulings that are published as per the bylaws United States Practical Shooting Association. Questions about rules should be emailed to rules at USPSA.org. This is episode 96, recorded late March 2026. Well, hello everyone. Kevin Emmel here with the NY Podcast, and joining me as usual are Jody Heumann. Good evening, Jody.

SPEAKER_06 1:10

Good evening, everyone.

SPEAKER_05 1:12

And our director, Troy McManus. Good evening, Troy. Good evening. And we have a special guest tonight. We have Area 7 director Frank Rizzy with us tonight. Good evening, Frank. Introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Good evening, everyone. I am Frank Rizzy. I'm the USPSA Area 7 director. I handle all the uh the states from New York up to Maine, basically all of the uh Northeast.

SPEAKER_05 1:35

The lobster states.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yes. Along with some of the uh communist states.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

Well, you know. Jody and I live in a communist state, so what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yep, what are you gonna do? Make it work.

SPEAKER_05 1:49

All right. Well, and Frank also happens to be a my uh one of my RM students, so Frank and I get to chat quite a bit. So we were chatting uh about the program here a week or so ago, and he mentioned that he wanted to pop in and talk about something that there's a lot of confusion about out there. And so with that, Frank, uh let's why go ahead and talk about membership numbers.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Sure. Thanks, Kevin. Uh so yeah, I wanted to uh discuss uh one of the recent policies that the board has uh uh enacted, and that's the membership uh requirement policy, the membership number requirement. So uh as I'm sure a lot of people have already uh seen the announcement from USPSA, uh going forward, we're requiring that if you are a USPSA member and you're shooting a USPSA sanction event, uh whatever level that would be, anywhere from level one to level four, uh, and this also applies to Steel Challenge. Uh you're now required to enter your membership number when you register for that event. Uh or at some time, you know, if you forget to, you know, put it in when you register before the uh that event starts, you need to put your membership number in. So uh I've seen a lot of feedback uh online on social media. I've gotten text messages and Instagram messages, you know, with some confusion about this policy. So that's why I kind of wanted to uh jump on uh with you great folks and and dispel some of the rumors and you know talk about it a little bit more and why we did what we did. Um so first, uh the reason that we changed it and the reason that we enacted this policy, uh, once the classification system changed, uh, where all classifiers now count, where previously, you know, if your classification, if you shot a classifier and it was uh a low score, that classifier wouldn't count. Now, no matter what uh what you shoot, it's gonna count. Uh our members have found, uh, let's just say they found creative ways uh to not make those classifications count uh count if they have a bad classification run. So one of the first things that we noticed that uh some folks started doing was intentionally DQ themselves. So they have a bad classifier run. And in order to not make that classifier count towards their classification, uh they would intentionally DQ themselves. So if there's a DQ, um the classifier obviously then wouldn't count. So that we realized that created some issues, some problems. So uh a couple months back, we changed it. So now if you complete a classifier, even if you DQ later on in the match, that classifier is still going to count towards your classification. So we fixed that issue uh by doing that. The next issue that we ran into was people would intentionally leave their member number blank. And if they had a good classification run, they would reach out to the match director or headquarters and say, Hey, uh, I forgot to put my member number in. Can you go ahead and enter that for me? Or if they uh had a bad classifier run, they would just leave it alone because they never entered their classification number. Uh and that would in turn, uh the classifier wouldn't count. So we realized uh that's that's kind of a problem, that's an issue. You know, essentially what that is, it's really that's cheating. You know, you you you ran the classifier, you ran the stage. If you had a good run, a bad run, no matter what it is, it should count towards your classification. That was one of the reasons that we changed the whole classification system. So we enacted a policy going forward, and and really, honestly, this only affects level one matches. Uh, because level two and three uh and level four for Steel Challenge, those matches already required you to be a member. So you had to add your member number. So the biggest impact that this is gonna have is on level one matches. So if you sign up for a match, a level one match, a USP match, you're a member, you have to put your member number in. So one some of the feedback that we got was one of the first things that I saw that was totally inaccurate was well, this is uh just not nothing but a money grab from USPSA. And that that's completely that's completely wrong, and that is totally not the case because USPSA collects activity fees based on the number of shooters, whether you're a member or not. So however, you know, however many shooters shoot the match, when we submit those scores, when the match direct dismisss those scores, you know, that generates uh uh an activity fee that's paid by the club. So it doesn't matter whether you're a member or not.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

So honestly just to just to clarify, there's no difference in membership activ member activity fees or non-member activity fees. It's all the same.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Right, exactly. So the the the the notion that this is just a money grab, that's just totally inaccurate, and that's not correct. And that's not the reason that that we enacted this policy. Um so some of the other feedback that I saw was uh we got some emails from uh angry match directors saying, well, I'm not gonna go in and verify that you know everyone put their number in and everyone who is a member put their number. I'm not doing all that. Well, we don't expect you to. You know, we didn't do this to create more work for the match directors. I'm a match director myself. I run a match every month, I run a level two match every year. So I know what match directors go through firsthand. And we absolutely do not want to create more work for the match directors. They do enough for the sport. You know, I appreciate match directors because I do it every month, I do it. So I know what they go through. So that was not our intention. So we don't expect every match director to go through every name who registers for their match and verify whether they're a member or not. That's not the case. But what this policy does do is if a match director is now aware that someone signed up for their match and they know for a fact that someone is a member, they now have the authority to go in and put that member number in or edit someone's member number to correct it. So before, we never had anything in writing that said that match directors have that authority. You know, most match directors would do it on their own, but we never had that in writing. So if we had a member, for example, that intentionally did not put their member number in, you know, they can make an argument that where is it in writing that I have to put my member number in. The match director has no right to do that, to change that member number. And they wouldn't be wrong. So now we have an actual written policy that gives the match directors the authority to make those adjustments, make those changes as necessary. So the other thing that, you know, part of the QA, you know, I came up with all possible scenarios and questions that people could ask. And one of the things uh that frequently comes up is, you know, people have fat finger syndrome. I do it myself all the time. You hit the wrong number on your phone. You know, people that don't have their member number saved in their phone, they accidentally put a wrong number. We're not looking to go after those people who make errors. You know, it happens. We know it happens, it happens more often than not. So that's not the intention of this. We're not looking to go after, you know, people that make a mistake putting their member number in. If you make a mistake, we know that it happens. You could reach out to the match director to correct it. You know, you could possibly potentially reach out to headquarters to correct it. Although we'd rather you reach out to your match director and not make more work for our staff. So we really prefer, you know, handle it at the local level in the event you make a mistake and don't realize it until after the fact. Uh, but we're really what we're looking for is people that constantly, you know, put a wrong member number in or constantly don't enter their member number. You know, that's that's a pattern of basically a pattern of cheating. So if the match director sees that that you're constantly doing that, then they could refer you back to headquarters, back to the discipline committee, and then we could re-evaluate that. So uh, and another big comment that we saw is well, now, you know, non-members can't shoot level one matches. No, that's absolutely not the case. So it clearly states that if you're not a member of USPSA, you're still welcome to shoot level one matches. We'd love to have you there. We'd love for you to be a member, but if you choose not to, that's your choice. You know, that doesn't affect your participation at level one matches. You can come in, shoot a level one match, and this policy has absolutely zero effect on you. Because if you're not a member, you don't need to put a member number in. So that's absolutely, you know, no effect whether or not you're a USPSA member or not. So, and so also, you know, what are some of the potential uh consequences of violating the policy? Well, as we put in the uh the QA, you know, it could include anything from a written warning or if it keeps constantly happening a suspension. Or, you know, we don't want to get to it, but you know, you may be brought in front of the board, brought up on you know, determination of membership or anything like that. We don't want it to get that far. So put your member number in, you know, do the right thing. If you have a bad run, you know, get them next time. So, and uh that that's pretty much it. If you, you know, you guys have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

So I just had a couple of comments with that. Um the first one was uh, you know, on sanctioned events, membership numbers, et cetera, and and everything counting. There's a lot of people that kind of protested that part too. Like, you know, if I had a jam, it shouldn't count, et cetera. But in the overall scheme of things, it's a consistency thing, right? So if you have if you're consistent in your in your classification across the board, this this sort of, and I mean, honestly, I wasn't super in favor of that system at first either, but this sort of levels that playing field and cuts the thriller zero part out of it, right? So then you don't have false higher classifications, and you know, hopefully you don't have false lower classifications, although people will still shoot like that because they don't want to move up, right? There's not much we can do about that. But I mean, sandbaggers are sandbaggers. So um the second thing was was in the flood of social media comments we saw right at first, you always get the you always get the negative ones first, right? Because I think the the boo birds, I call them, are hanging out there waiting to make comments, right? Um, but then you start getting other members commenting in there. It's like, why would you not want to do that? Are you a cheater? Are you doing this? Are you doing that? And so I think the the opinion tide kind of balances out on that. So uh like you said, time will tell, but you know, why would you not put your number in and and just do the right thing, right?

Cheating Patterns And Real Consequences

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, absolutely. And one other thing that, you know, I forgot to mention, so somebody else reached out to me and they had a valid, a valid uh complaint, concern. So, and they they brought up a potential situation, you know. Somebody reached out and said, hey, look, you know, I'm going for knee surgery, you know, and and during my rehab, you know, I may still be able to shoot, but I can't run at the level that I ran before while I'm rehabbing. But I may be able to walk, you know, walk the stage. You know, why should I have to put my member number in, you know, if I don't want it to count? Well, there is an option. Um, you could choose not to shoot the classifier. You know, if you don't shoot the classifier, you have to ensure that whoever uh is running the tablet or the match director, everyone needs to be aware of that when someone doesn't shoot the classifier, it's super important to make sure you DNF them for that stage. You know, you can't just leave them out because if you if you don't do anything, then they will get a zero for that stage, and that zero will count towards their classification. But if they don't actually attempt the stage, if they don't shoot the stage, if they get a DNF, then it doesn't count. They don't get a zero towards their classification. So you do have the choice of just not shooting that classifier. You get it, you know, you get a DNF for that stage, and then it won't, you know, nothing counts toward your classification, you know, it won't even appear there. So there is that option. I mean, so So the DNF doesn't show that's correct.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Because it comes up as a zero in the in the scores.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, practice sees that as a zero. How does it practice score sees that as zero, and for the the match it'll see it as a zero. However, for the classification system, because you didn't attempt the course of fire, it doesn't affect the classific your classification. But it has to be entered as DNF. Well, that's if you don't hit DNF, we were talking about that a week or two ago. And we all said, well, it's a zero.

SPEAKER_06 14:25

I swear I heard that if it was a DNF, it didn't count.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Uh right, like I said, but it has to be DNF because if they don't hit DNF, then you will get a zero for the stage and that will that zero will count towards your classification.

SPEAKER_06 14:37

So I just have so like I I I league bowl. I know bowling's a different sport, but like in the bowling league, it's a handicap league. If let's say you injure your arm and you gotta start bowling with your other hand, they do allow you to have a second a left-handed average or whatever. Um, I mean, maybe USPSA, because sometimes these people, it's quite a while while they're rehabbing a knee or shoulder or something. You know, maybe having an option where they can have an injury uh classification or something might be something to look into in the future. Um but also um I saw people say the other thing that I saw brought up was you know, I just can't shoot at those that level anymore. Yet they won't let my classification just naturally drop. I know that's a different issue than not putting your member number in. And I know they can request from HQ to go down in classification. But, you know, a lot of when they redid the classification and how scores are calculated, they were saying that before it was wildly inaccurate. So has the classification committee or the board talked about like maybe every five years they look at your five years of scores and automatically classify you down if you've not shot at that level?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

So that's the that's a conversation that that we haven't discussed too frequently, but um I will say that you know there is that option. You can, you know, partition the uh petition the organization to uh reclassify you, to classify you down. You know, I know uh there are uh a number of people at my club that, you know, as they they've gotten older, uh they can't shoot at the same level that they used to, you know, 20, 30 years ago. Um so they you know reached out and tried to uh get reclassified. So that is an option. Uh but the kind of the way I feel about it is that's you know, if if I get to a level, let's, you know, M, GM level, you know, that's the level that I have achieved. Even if I can't shoot at that level, you know, in the future, maybe I want to stay at that level. That's an accomplishment, you know, getting to that level. You know, that's you know, I'd like to see that, you know, that letter next to my name, you know, for as long as I can. You know, even if I can't shoot at that level or compete at that level anymore, you know, maybe I'd want to, you know, still have that, you know, designation as a you know a master or grandmaster, which I'm not, by the way. But you know, I I may, you know, want to see that there. And I may not want, you know, my my classification to to go down. Some other people, you know, you know, want to be competitive, you know, at the level they're at, and they may want their classification, you know, to to go down. You know, I I know some people that, you know, have reached, you know, A and they can't, you know, because of age, you know, and injuries and what have you, they can't shoot at an A level anymore. You know, they want to lower their classification so they can be competitive in their class.

SPEAKER_06 17:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

So, you know, I think that's kind of a personal choice, you know, to the shooter. And I I like having that option.

unknown 17:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 17:42

Well, I know I've known a couple people have requested in the past, many years ago, to get dropped down and they were told no.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

So I guess um, yeah, that's that's something we should we should reevaluate.

SPEAKER_06 17:54

I've I've heard that too, and I don't think we're I guess I guess you know, have you guys had any recent people ask and did they get it granted?

SPEAKER_05 18:01

I know somebody did it about three years ago.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

Yeah, well, I know somebody asked about three years ago that it was successful.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

Yeah, I I don't know if they were looking at you know it might be that they're looking at current scores and going, well, yeah, but you're still you're only shooting like three percent below, so we're not gonna drop you. I mean, this individual was a GM and I believe asked to go down to master and could that's where they were shooting. And it was granted. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, maybe maybe that's something we could look at in the future, you know, that that whole system of how we evaluate uh whether or not to lower someone's classification when they ask.

SPEAKER_05 18:49

Yeah, it sounds like that's not a written procedure or policy, so that probably needs to be addressed.

SPEAKER_06 18:54

Uh I think it's mentioned on the classification system information page on the website. But um, you know, usually when people want to drop, it's because they want to go to like area matches or section matches and win trophies once in a while. You know, if they're shooting, you know, at one point they were a master class and they're only shooting A or B class now, you know, they're never gonna get trophies in their class, right? And that's why people want to go down. I mean, I get yeah, if I ever get master, which will never happen, um, yeah, I'd like to be like, at one point I was lucky enough to get enough classifier scores strung together to get it. Um but at the same time, I haven't won anything at matches since I got out of a D class. Not that I want to go back to D class.

SPEAKER_04 19:42

So yeah. All right. Okay. Um anything else you want to go over, Frank?

Announcements And Rulebook Updates

SPEAKER_05 19:54

Uh nope, that's all I got for now. Um so let's dive into any announcements. Troy, any announcements from you?

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Uh yeah, the uh rule books on Amazon. So during the staff meeting this afternoon, Rick uh clued us in on that. Amazon's in the final stages of reviewing to make sure that you know all the dots are all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed and the periods are in the right place, and the rule numbers, I mean the page numbers are all correct and all that stuff. And I think they had their usual uh little delay making sure that we actually own the copyright, etc. Uh, but uh one of the things that's happened is the current you can no longer buy the current books that link is disabled, right? The 2025 books. So you can't buy those by accident. And so he thinks within a week the new rule books will be available to purpose on Amazon. So that's uh that's a thing that's coming up. We're also I'm also gonna be distributing a new after action report form that's gonna be tied to the form sheet, but it's not in there yet, but it's going to pass mass directors range masters for 2026 um to fill out so that we can start gathering data on matches, good things, bad things, things that we can uh identify as uh as deficiencies that we need to fix, things that we need to train on, et cetera, et cetera. So um it's also good for effectiveness of the calibration system. Uh it's also good for effectiveness of video review, et cetera. So we're gathering that information. We've talked with practice for and they promised to give us the information via practice score on the number of disqualifications and procedurals. So we don't even put that in the, I didn't put it in the in the survey in the after action report. It'll be just we'll have that number and then we can match it with that match and say, okay, they had six disqualifications, but according to this report, only two of them were um were overturned, you know, with video evidence or any kind of digital evidence. Or even if they were just overturned by the Range Master without that evidence. And then also see if we're seeing a high number of certain kinds of DQs, then it gives us a direction to train in, and it gives us a direction to tell people to be aware of, you know, maybe some more tips, videos, et cetera, how to avoid doing this at a match and getting yourself disqualified, right? So we saw a video uh today that was you know highly suspicious that the 180 was broken on the draw, but because of where the video was shot from, there was a piece of core plastic in the way, so you couldn't really tell, right? And uh Jermaine Adams uh sent something out the other day of a guy that had an AD in his holster. Um it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen, but you know, it's one of those things that it's probably gonna get investigated six ways from Sunday. It wasn't a P320, it was it was a it was actually a C Z. So uh and I it's I don't know what happened, but you know, it looked like it appeared that he drew the gun, but it he just barely got his hand on the grip, and the hammer was down the car.

SPEAKER_06 23:06

She said it shot it shot through the bottom of the holster. Yeah. Yeah, it did. Yeah. It's almost like when he went to grab the gun, he hit the hammer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:16

Maybe my theory is he really didn't lower it all the way. It was sitting on the halfcock not, which the geometry of which might not be great. And when he went to draw it, he hit it with his hand and knocked the hammer the rest of the way down. That's the only thing that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Um, it's you know, it's he's that that could be it, but anyway. You mentioned yeah, long. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:41

He's got an interesting scar on the tip of his toe.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Yep. Right. Yeah, he's that's a lucky scar.

SPEAKER_06 23:47

Yeah, yeah. Lucky.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

It's a lucky scar.

SPEAKER_06 23:51

Hopefully, we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

So that's uh basically kind of what we're looking for, is is you know, we're gonna try to gather information on that. I've already gotten one or two turned in, so I sent them to all the to the range master group. Um, we have a Google group that encompasses all the people that are certified as RMs, and uh I got a couple turned in for that, and then the instructor group did the testing on it and everything. So that's gonna go to Rick and Nathan, and they'll put it in dating the form C system along with that. So pretty soon that Form C will be a little different. But we've got a ton of matches entered in already, so we're gonna have to kind of manually catch up with some of that stuff. But it's doable, it's not uh it's not an impossible task. So it's but if you are a raised master or a master rector at level two and up, um, you know, seek out that that form because we're gonna send it to you and try to give us that information, right? It just helps us and it helps you in the long run, and then we can maybe help you with any issues you had or or you know, take a look at some of our training methods, et cetera, and and determine if the there's a lot of people that think the calibration procedure that we use is is useless, but anecdotally it's 10 to 12 percent of the competitors that ask for calibration actually get a reshoot because of that procedure. So that's not an insignificant number. Um that's 10 to 20 percent, I mean 10 to 12 percent that would be uh counting as misses, you know, other on the under the old procedure. So I think it's gonna work out okay, but it's a good idea to gather that information. And there will there will be forums for staff, there will be forums for specific for Chrono and stats because that's a little bit more uh uh diversified information, kind of a niche bunch of information. And then there'll also be a forum for competitors to kind of kind of rank the match and put in comments and complaints and stuff like that. So um gonna try to get more member input on match results. And what we can do right, what we can do wrong, see if there's any, you know, range officials that need maybe some some retraining. But so far I really haven't had a lot of a lot of uh complaints in general, so I think we're okay there, but you know, you never know when you have somebody that isn't doing the right thing. So maybe we'll be able to figure that out. Other than that, uh no, I don't have any more announcements. All right, Jody, what'd you have?

SPEAKER_06 26:23

Going back to rule books, can uh can you guys all open your USPSA app and tell me which version of the USPSA competition rules you see when you open them?

SPEAKER_04 26:34

Um so I actually know where you're going with this.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Uh-oh. Rick Rick mentioned that today. I see May 126.

SPEAKER_06 26:48

So Oh, I see April.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

And so depending on what what uh I have an Android, and if you go into the app settings and clear out your cache, okay, and then open up the app again and then download the rule book, you'll have the updated version.

SPEAKER_06 27:03

Huh, because I swear I downloaded it earlier this month and it was March. And then we had a rules quote guy had a question about his exam. He told me he used the version in the rule book and he uh the in the app and he went and it was April. And I went and I'm like, well, now it says April. That's or uh last year. That's weird. Okay. I'll go clear my cash.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

So all those iPhones is March 126.

SPEAKER_06 27:28

I have March for multi-gun and steel challenge, but I probably never downloaded those. I always just hit the field for competition. I just I just use P my PDF files that I have on my sync to my phone. So I hardly ever use the app, even though this new app's better. Right. So just that all of you out there, make sure you clear the cache on your app and have the right rule book when you do your exams.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Yeah, if you're having issues uh downloading the newest version of the app, uh of the rule book in through the app, the best thing, like I said, that's how I figured it out. Because I couldn't get figure it out for nothing. I went into the app settings, cleared out the cache, cleared out the data, went back into the app, logged in, and then I was able to download the newest version of the rule book.

Nationals Hosting RFP Deadline

SPEAKER_05 28:13

So for all you Android users out there, do what Frank said. That's all right. Let's see. We kind of talked about this next one. Um the voluntary voluntarily what's that? I had a quick announcement.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Go for it. Uh in case you haven't seen the announcement from USPSA, uh, right now we're accepting um RFPs for national championships requests for proposal. So if you are if you have a range uh that you think is capable of holding a national championship event, uh, we're looking for rangers to submit proposals to host the 2027 and 2028 national championships. So if that you think that's something that uh you're interested in or something that your range could handle, and you know, you're interested in running in nationals, you know, you know, basically we're looking for any uh anything at all. You know, you want to completely run it, you know, yourself or you want to host it the nationals there, you know, if you think you have the facility to run that match, you know, go on our website, usPsa.org, under the announcements. You know, right now I think it's the first announcement. Uh USPSA opened the RFP process for national championship. Click on that link and you can submit a proposal. Uh and last year I was uh involved in the in that process for selecting the Rangers for National. So we look through every one of those proposals. Uh we went through them in detail. Uh so we do look at all the proposals, we go through all that stuff. So I can assure you, you know, we look at everything that gets sent to us and we go through it, you know, with a fine-tooth comb before we make a selection. So yeah, if you have a facility that you think you could uh host a national event at, by all means submit a proposal. Those will be due to us by May 1st.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

All right.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

Well, I know some ranges that I hope submit, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_06 30:09

I I submit sure one range knew about the RP.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

So is it the range I'm thinking of?

SPEAKER_06 30:15

The one in the neighboring state.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

To the east?

SPEAKER_06 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

Slightly. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

SPEAKER_05 30:27

All right. Yeah, that's that's a that's a I you know it's I'm I'm hoping that that you know gets us traveling around a little bit more because I survived the five years straight or six years straight of going to Vegas three times a year.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

That got old really quick. Yeah, that's kind of what we're looking for. We we'd like to move nationals around. Um, you know, we've had it in Ohio for a couple of years. Uh, you know, now we're using uh the range in Utah, which is uh phenomenal range, fantastic facility. Uh so you know, we'd like, you know, I'm sure there are plenty of other rangers out there that have the ability to host a national championship, you know, and we'd love to, you know, move it around every couple of years, you know, to give uh other rangers an opportunity to host that event and you know, maybe get some some different people, you know, local to the area to participate in in those events. So yeah, it'd be great. You know, if you have the ability, if you have the range, if you have the facility, you know, go for it.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

Yeah, all right. Is uh do you is is there a range visit involved in the vetting process or does that occur later or uh there may be a range visit, absolutely, uh depending on the range.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Uh if it's a new facility that we're not aware of, yeah, once somebody may be coming out there to visit the range uh to verify that you can actually you know host a national championship level event.

SPEAKER_05 31:53

The berms are actually as tall as they look on Google Earth.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 32:00

Yeah. Um, so yeah, that's that's pretty cool. Um so yeah, we may even see some of the the ranges that have hosted way in the past pop back popping back up. So that'd be kind of fun. All right. Any more announcements or trivia or anything else?

SPEAKER_06 32:23

Come on, we save the trivia for the question of the month, Kevin.

Mailbag Safety Call With WML

SPEAKER_05 32:26

Yeah, that's true. All right, we'll dive off into the mailbag. Um, so at a recent match, a competitor holstered their gun after pulling the trigger at the if clear hammered down command. Right after he holstered, the R.O. pointed out his weapon-mounted light was still on before issuing the range's clear command. And the competitor instinctively pulled the gun out, turned the light off, and immediately all the other staff and ROs working the stage yelled stop and told him that he was a DQ. Lots of discussion followed between the R.O. that was running the shooter and the other ROs, and eventually they decided it was not a DQ, and that the competitor finished the match. The decision seems to hinge on the fact that the RO running shooter had not yet commanded the range as clear when the competitor unholstered uh their gun, and the RO himself had prompted the shooter to turn the light off by telling him it was on. What are your thoughts? Uh Trey, I think you did this one.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Yeah, it is there's no DQ for that. Um that's just he's still under make ready, and so he can draw his gun and handle it. Until you say range is clear, they can have their gun out, right? Draw it out, do whatever. And they don't have to have specific instructions to do that because you've already supervised them to draw their gun. So I just caution you don't jump to a conclusion automatically. Oh, that's a DQ, right? Yeah. And thankfully they they came to the right conclusion on this where they didn't disqualify him. But I mean, that would be, in my opinion, that would be a wrongful, wrongful DQ to do there.

SPEAKER_05 33:59

Well, he was also over you could make the you could even if he had said range is clear, you could also say, but he was under the command and direction and observation of an RO. The RO pointing that out is kind of telling him to turn it off. Um so you know, we we have other instances in the rule book where you can just be under the control of an RO and handle your gun. So that's you know, like when you show up at a range and there's nowhere for you to unload your carry gun, you can find an RO and they take you someplace safe and you unload it. So you don't necessarily um you know have to be between the range commands. So, but yeah. At least if I got DQ'd, I'd be arguing that that was RO interference at the very least, at the very least.

SPEAKER_06 34:49

Well, and also it's just when something strange happens, it's instinct for people to yell stop.

SPEAKER_05 34:53

Well, yeah, and it's lately it seems to also be instinct to DQ people that when strange they do something different.

SPEAKER_06 35:00

Yeah, so a lot of times what happens is something strange happens and they just yell stop and they say DQ. And then sometimes they do check the rule book and they can't find a rule that supports the DQ, because we always say you have to have a rule to support the DQ. But they're just like, well, we didn't like it. Hence it's a DQ. Which I mean, if it was something truly, truly unsafe, but in this case, the gun was unloaded, the range was not clear. Um I mean, a lot of times when I holster my race gun, if I don't get it in that race holster just right, I have to draw it again and reset set it again in the holster, right? And I've had ROs, they don't wait for me to get my hand off the gun and they're like range is clear. And I'm like, look, my gun is not holstered yet, fully holstered. I need to adjust it. Right and tell them I need to adjust it. Yeah. I mean, I never give ranges clear until people have stopped handling the gun. But in this case, you know, if the RO says your light's on, of course the guy's gonna go grab his gun and turn the light off.

SPEAKER_05 36:03

I wonder what kind of stage it was he was shooting where he needed the weapon mounted light.

SPEAKER_06 36:07

I know, I'm like, it wasn't a night stage.

unknown 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:11

You know, it's I mean people do house stages, so you know that's that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

We got no problem with that at all. No train like you fight, right?

SPEAKER_06 36:20

So well, I mean, I remember doing the dark house stage at doing the dark house stage at PASA where they provided you a handheld light. Yeah, because we didn't allow weapon-mounted lights at the time.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:32

Imagine now we allow them. Yeah, that's way cooler.

SPEAKER_05 36:37

That state, by the way, was sponsored by Surefire, I believe.

SPEAKER_06 36:40

So yeah, I think so.

Rule 11.5.5 And Stage Traps

SPEAKER_05 36:42

Somebody had to pay for all those batteries. Because that was back in when those CR123s were expansive. So all right, next question. Uh so it was a 115 stage. They designed the stage with the stomp pedal activator that was outside of the shooting area. They were forcing the competitor to exit the shooting area with at least one foot. The competitor stepped out on the left of the pedal, stepped on it, then stepped back into the shooting area to the right of the pedal. The RO said it wasn't at the same location, so they gave him 16 procedurals for the rest of the stage. The moving activated target was just downrange, could only be shot from the area between two walls where the pedal was at, hence a single location.

SPEAKER_06 37:27

Thoughts? Well, let's remind people what 1155 is. So 1155, the WSB may specify that competitors must stay within the fault lines for the entire course of fire. Movement outside the fault lines will incur per shot penalty, procedural penalty for any targets engaged after such movement. Drop steps are allowed as are inadvertent steps outside the fault lines as long as the competitor steps back into the into the fault lines in the same location. I mean, to me personally, if you're gonna use 1155, you shouldn't have an activator outside the shooting area.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

I think that's that's the main problem here is the way that it was set up. And I mean, if you don't want to put it inside what you've built because you think it's a tripping hazard, then put your fault line around it and let it just extend out of the shooting area so there's no BS about shooting while you stood on it or anything, because a lot of people do that, right?

SPEAKER_04 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Uh, you know, so just build it where you're not by building in a gratuitous penalty, because in my opinion, that's all that was. And honestly, the way that that that rule reads is slightly different from the way the IPSC rule is is read out and applied when they say you can't advance outside the fault lines. So was that an advance or not? Stepping on and stepping off in a slightly different spot, I would not consider it to be that way. But you know, there are some IPSIC folks that think if you step out and step back in at the same spot, they want to penalize you for that. So it's pretty uh misunderstood, I think, in a lot of ways. But I think in this case, this is this is just uh kind of poor stage design. They didn't take it out. Let's put this out there. And you and you built basically a procedural trap when you did that, right?

SPEAKER_04 39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

So whether they whether they stepped on the left and stepped back off on the right, or whether they kept a foot on it, that procedural would have been the same. It probably wouldn't have been 16, you know. But I mean, and then man, that's excessive, right? Because especially for what they did and where they did it. So yeah, I don't know. I think that that particular rule is gonna give us headaches for a while.

SPEAKER_05 39:49

And I think this was just the first of many that we'll see.

SPEAKER_06 39:52

Well, I mean, I could see I mean the the rationale was it's gonna it provides options to stage designers. And it does. I I you know, I I totally agree, but you know, I'm waiting for someone to have uh a 100% balance beam stage with zigzag balance beams or something like that. And you know, someone loses their balance and steps off, you know. Um I can see where it could be used just to punish people. And I just want to remind everyone this is a shooting sport. It's not a uh Ironman endurance race. You make sure you design your stages for people of all abilities. Um and don't abuse this. Um I think if you came and had a match all with 1155 stages, your uh consumers might be a little upset because that's not that's more ipsic than USPSA.

SPEAKER_05 40:47

Yeah, people might be voting with their checkbooks and you might not see them.

SPEAKER_06 40:50

Yeah. Now if you want to have one or one, sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Yeah. It was designed for I think and and Frank can back us up on this, but the the intent was to not make stage designers at lower level matches, right? Build a bunch of extra props and have extra props and do all this, that, and the other to make people go where they wanted to, uh, not let them run around and do all kinds of things. So that's great. But when you intentionally put something outside the fault lines, you know, you're just sucking around for a gratuitous penalty right there. So you're kind of going outside of what that thing is designed or what that particular rule was designed to do.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yeah, I would I would agree. That would that was, you know, the intention when when we passed that rule change, when we made that rule change, was for exactly like you said, for, you know, to create some um, you know, to give uh match designers some more leeway, you know, to create uh different options for stages. You know, at my club, I have smaller bays, you know, and I've used it a couple of times on some of the stages that I have because I didn't want people to run around the wall, you know, for safety reasons, you know, and you know, to not create RO traps, you know, then I use that to say you have to stay within the uh within the shooting area. So that was really the intention. Um, but as far as this question, I would agree that it sounds like a poor uh design having an activator outside of the shooting area and utilizing that rule. So that's definitely not something that I would do.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Well, I mean, here's the thing is there was always a rule in there that said you could set up off-limits lines if you want people cutting across or running where you didn't want to do it. Okay, that's great. But you still had to build something to do it. Now, this rule has sort of eliminated the need for off-limits lines because it's available at higher-level matches as well. So you could just invoke one one five five and say you have to stay within the fault lines. So then there's no putting up off-limits lines or anything else like that, right? And I mean, I don't know how often off-limits lines were used. I know Sherwin used to use them occasionally in Area 3, but that was because he had some weird different stages, so he needed them. But Sherman Sherwin used everything. Yeah. But, you know, it was it was a tool, and I don't know how many how often it got used. Sometimes in class, people say, Oh, we do it sometimes, but I never saw it used that much. But now with 1155, that is basically a verbal off-limits line, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:21

So you can set it up and do what you want. I've heard of that the indoor range crowd uses it quite a bit, so it makes sense for those.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

Yeah.

Slide Lock Start Position Problems

SPEAKER_05 43:33

All right, moving on. Uh, next question. A competitor has modified his slide stop so the slide does not lock back. The stage briefing says the slide needs to be locked open to begin the stage, uh, or for the start position. What would the penalty be since the competitor can now not lock his slide back?

SPEAKER_02 43:54

My initial answer to that was tell him to stick a rock in it so it stays open. That probably wouldn't be good.

SPEAKER_06 44:02

I feel targeted. I feel targeted since I have two open guns with nitro fins that I can't lock back anymore.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

Can't lock back. I mean, you gotta consider what the advantage or disadvantage of that is. I mean, if you have a a closed slide, you have to show that the gun's empty, right? So all right, that's one thing. Um slide lock back lets you have the hammer back, obviously, on a on a single action type gun.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

Uh slide forward, you could let them have this the hammer back, I guess, or make them put it down if they can't lock it back. I don't think you should issue a procedure for that. I mean, I because there's there's no big advantage for having it go forward. You still got to rack the gun. On the other one, all you gotta do is hit your fly stop, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:47

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

So is it better? Is it worse? I don't know. But I mean, it's just like with stages that where they say, uh, uh, what's the one they do with that that revolvers can't do? Uh um empty chamber thing or something like that. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 45:08

Well, all I know is when some we have this the standard unloaded start. All the revolver shooters always ask, can I start with my cylinder open?

SPEAKER_05 45:16

Yeah, of course we do.

SPEAKER_06 45:18

And I'm like, no. But I mean, we have so here's my thing. It's like, okay, you want people to start with the gun unloaded, obviously, right? I guess it doesn't say it's unloaded. But anyway, usually, you know, we have a definition of unloaded in the rule book. Always stick to that definition. Because otherwise, people are gonna find a creative way to game the situation.

SPEAKER_05 45:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 45:42

And so, you know, I don't remember if that question said if the gun was loaded or not, because what we have here just doesn't slide back.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

It's not in the question. That that's everything that was sent.

SPEAKER_06 45:52

So was it mag inserted, loaded, mag inserted, slide back?

SPEAKER_05 45:56

I mean, if if so, then the guy that's having to rack the slide is is it you know certainly the disadvantage because everybody else is as the process of mounting the gun is going to hit the slide stop, slide goes forward, chambers around, right to go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even if it's not mag inserted, um my limited gun, if I put the mag in hard enough, that slide's going forward.

SPEAKER_06 46:23

So well, yeah.

unknown 46:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

So yeah, whatever. So would a procedural apply for not following the written stage briefing?

SPEAKER_06 46:33

Well, technically you can't start them if they're not in the right start position.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

So it's that's not a start position now. Let's make that straight. That's a gun condition.

SPEAKER_06 46:41

Yeah, well, sorry, or the not in the right ready condition.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Make ready, make ready.

SPEAKER_05 46:44

It's a make ready condition.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

It's a done ready condition. Yeah, I guess you could do that. Apply it for not following the stage brief, but if they can't, right? I mean, it's a mechanical thing with the gun. That's kind of my thing. Is like I don't think they're gonna gain anything by having a slide closed. Well, I mean, you could do that, but you're you're penalizing them for and it's true, they they modified the gun so that it's like that, so that's their fault, right?

SPEAKER_06 47:15

But but we don't say in the rules you have to have a functioning slide stop.

SPEAKER_04 47:20

No, no. So I don't know. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_05 47:28

And a whole bunch of people would be, oh crap, temper and yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:32

Yeah, can I 3D print a block that simulates the slide look back?

SPEAKER_05 47:38

Well, I mean, I guess you could do a uh just to stick an empty case in there, right?

SPEAKER_06 47:43

Well, you could just you know you do that the slide like in an AR with those slide the the uh Oh then the uh go up through the through loading port. Magwell, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

Or through the loading port. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's kinda locked open.

SPEAKER_06 48:00

But that would be a way disadvantage because you actually gotta pull that thing out.

SPEAKER_05 48:03

Yeah. Yeah. So I'll stick an empty case in it. No. Um, make ready.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

It'll be fine.

SPEAKER_05 48:16

Yeah. I mean 12 gauge hole, yeah. Yeah, you know duct tape.

SPEAKER_06 48:22

The answer is always duct tape.

SPEAKER_05 48:23

You know, water duct tape. Yeah, because on a warm day that won't just go all over the place. Stick your finger in there, except you can't touch your gun. So all right. Moving on.

SPEAKER_06 48:35

Um, can I use I think well, wait, so so so we're just saying don't do that start position, is what we're saying, right?

SPEAKER_05 48:42

Basically. Or, you know, I I think it's just it's not really it the person's not gaining an advantage by not being able to lock their slide open. Um, and and I'm trying to think in all the in my 23 years in the sport, have I ever seen a slide locked open stage? And the answer I think to that is no. I mean, how would a revolver comply with a slide slide locked open stage? I mean, cylinder open, okay, but the word says slide, so yeah, it's just a bad just a bad idea.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Well, you gotta write your WSB carefully for that, but still, yeah. It's I don't know. I've never seen I've I don't think I've ever seen one that was set up like that.

SPEAKER_05 49:27

I'm sure it happens. Slide slide locked back. Obviously, that happened here on this one, so yeah. Maybe that's because people learned that that wasn't a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

I mean, the hazard is okay, so you know it was like in 1911 when the slides locked back, you can actually over-insert a magazine a lot of times. Absolutely. And then you jam it up, right? So maybe that's the thing if it wasn't already in there. I don't know. Um just who knows. I mean, there's probably three different ways you could load a semi-automatic gun and not really have that problem, but yeah, it's just just don't. It's a good question, but I think I think there's a no penalty involved with that. Yeah.

5.7x28 In Steel Challenge

SPEAKER_05 50:12

All right. Next question. Can I use 5.7 by 28 pistol and steel challenge matches if I use 62 grain ammo rated at 1,050 feet per second?

SPEAKER_04 50:22

No.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

Just freaking stop. Yeah, that no that round is most probably going to be a little hard on your steel, especially if you're shooting mild steel. Um and uh, I mean, it's it is a round designed to penetrate armor. Um now, not a velocity caliber list either. No, and it's too small. Um it's it doesn't it doesn't fit. So I I don't think you know we would even ever add that one. It is becoming a more popular uh round. There's a couple new rounds out there that are becoming more popular, it's very low recoil. Um and uh I found the muzzle blast to be a little punishing in the one that I shot, but um, you know, that's neither here nor there. Um so yeah. Just no. But yeah, it's it's too it's too small anyway. It's there.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

I mean, there is a provision in the steel challenge rules in in countries where they can't shoot military calibers. So, you know, of course we have nine, thirty-eight, forty-five, all that stuff, uh, that we allow them to shoot 380, right? So it's there's no power factor in steel challenge, but that's the the smallest round that you could do. So it's nine millimeter Kurtz or 380 or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 51:46

You know, 380 is just a nine millimeter with a really light bullet in a shirt case. So I mean it's the same nine millimeter diameter.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Yeah, and the Mexicans uh approached us with that because they were running a steel challenge, and they can't do uh military calibers, but Glock makes the same model guns chambered in 380. So that's what they were shooting. So several years ago we put that rule in place as steel challenge. So you can shoot your 380 if not you can't shoot it here, but I mean you can shoot it um in some country where they don't allow military calibers, but 5'7 by 28, no, that's a no.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Yeah.

NROI Exam Review And Printing Tips

SPEAKER_05 52:26

So all right. Um and this one I think this person's primary language is not English, but anyway. Uh thank you for the fine reply for taking the NROI testing. I don't know what that means. Anyway, I do suggest that you also remind the test takers to review carefully the wrong answers to learn and reinforce their knowledge by seeing the errors they have made. I have many times said to myself after reviewing an incorrect answer, oh, there's where I got lost or did not quite understand. Review is an excellent tool. And I have to agree with that. It's you, you know, the old learn from your mistakes is very valuable. Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:05

He was he was thinking for because I explained to him that we also that that exam is used as part of a teaching exam as well. Because when you answer it and get it wrong, we show you what you got wrong, we show you the right answer. And like he's saying, you could certainly look that up and convince yourself that that's where you went wrong, right? Um, so yeah, I mean, review it. Now, what you can't do is when you get done, you can't print it out, and you can't email me and say, hey, can you give me a copy of my test? Because there's no way that I could do that other than taking six or eight screenshots, and uh it's I'm not doing that. So yeah, review it before you before you get rid of it, right?

SPEAKER_06 53:50

If if they really wanted to print it, they could do it. I don't know how many pages take pages of paper it would take, but they could print through their browser.

SPEAKER_05 53:59

Yeah, and I've I as I I always tell my students that when you first get into the exam, you have a button to print the exam that allows you to print it off so you can go sit down with fill it out, you know, with pen, you know, with the pen or pencil and your rule book, get it all to where you are happy with it, then you can go jam it back in um online. And I've found that a lot of people that suffer with with from a little bit of test anxiety or dyslexia or some other issues, that that really helps them um take the test. So, I mean, I always tell people that you have that option, but the when you answer that first question, that button goes away and you never see it again. So um you have to you have to print it before you start.

SPEAKER_06 54:47

Uh well no, I was talking about printing it after they get the results back.

SPEAKER_05 54:50

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:51

But yeah. But yeah, you there's one option. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:58

So it'd be it'd be a you know, several sheets of paper, but so what?

SPEAKER_06 55:03

Well, I know a lot of people like to keep them. I mean, the competition rules uh question pool's pretty large, so you could get a few duplicate questions the next year, but um multi-gun and steel challenge probably are more likely to get the same questions, but what I don't miss are the days of the paper exams.

SPEAKER_05 55:23

And if you want your exam back, send us a self-addressed stamped envelope when you send your exam in and then happen to Oh, I just emailed my answers to Carl.

SPEAKER_06 55:32

Got my grade back. Yeah, well, this was in the I'm just glad we don't have to grade exams by hand anymore.

Start Position Hand On Holster

SPEAKER_05 55:40

Yeah, that sucked. That was there, would go an entire Sunday, just sit down and grade exams. Meanwhile, everybody's you know I sent you my exam yesterday and I haven't heard back. Yeah, because I batch those. I don't do one at a time. All right, let's see. Um, all right, with regards to rule 8.2.3, a course of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold handgun, lighting device, or ammunition after the standby command and before the start signal, except for unavoidable touching with the lower arms. So is it okay for the competitor to grasp the holster between are you ready and standby?

SPEAKER_06 56:22

There's a lot of people who kind of have their hand curled around their holster so when they just move their hand up, they can just grab the pistol.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 56:32

And I've always said as long as you're not touching the gun with your hand, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 56:40

Yeah, I mean race holsters is a little more difficult, but using a real holster, um, but it's it's certainly doable.

SPEAKER_05 56:50

Hard with a race holster. But I mean, I know people who will still index off the bracket the whatever on you know you call it on on a on a race holster. Um just because that's a that way your hand is always in that spot. So it becomes a muscle memory thing.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

All right.

Renewal Emails And Seminar Updates

SPEAKER_05 57:12

Well, that's all I gleaned out of the mailbag. Um so for this for this one, um, anybody uh anything else? Or we can let Frank go to bed and get his beauty sleep and we can get on with it.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

I just have I have one more thing before so it seems like if you're if you're looking for an email for your RO renewal exam, your recertification, an e re email reminder, uh we've gotten not you know, not hundreds, but uh kind of an uptick in in people saying, hey, I never got my uh reminder email. And if we go and look at their profile, they certainly have a test waiting. And it was assigned to them, you know, in in the 30 days prior to the renewal uh date. So I don't know. I I've got the IT folks kind of looking into it, I think. And uh I don't know if there's a glitch in the system there or not, but um, if you're listening and you think your research date's coming up, go check your profile and see if you have a test waiting. Because it's not a it's not the end of the world if you go past your expiration date uh under our policy. You'll have six months to take the short tests and another six months to take the long test if you go that far. But you know, a lot of people don't like to let it expire. So uh go in and check, and um, maybe next podcast we'll have an update on whether there was a problem with that or or maybe it was just going to spam all of a sudden or something like that. I don't know. But I I've had a significant number, and by significant I mean a dozen or so, which means that there's probably a lot of people that don't even realize it didn't happen, right? Yeah, they might be able to check your check your stuff.

SPEAKER_06 58:58

And you have six months to take well, they might be expired because they didn't get a notification. And just remember you have six months to take your renewal exam. So yeah, then after after that, you take a 50 question exam.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

So take the long, yeah. So just check that if uh if that's not happening. Um and I think that's about it. Staffing for nationals is still working. We're full for both nationals and still challenged, so those applications just are closed. Um stages are coming, I hope. So, and we're reviewing stages as well for all the sanctioned matches that are trying to step in. Um, if you sent me one recently, uh you're probably sixth or seventh or eighth or twelfth in line somewhere. Because when it started getting close to most of the mass dates, then everybody piled them in there.

SPEAKER_05 59:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

But we'll get them done for you.

SPEAKER_05 59:54

And uh you know, I cleared out two on Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

Yeah. If you send me send it in and say, Oh, I need you to do this quick. Well, if you're if you're number six or seven on my list, it may be a day or so. So yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:16

Yeah, it's a little pre-planning help. Yeah, I took care of the uh couple that were coming up, or one that was coming up pretty close, and then took care of another one that was a little bit farther out.

unknown 1:00:28

But cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:31

All right, and uh let's thank Frank for coming in and explaining. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:39

Yeah, thanks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Yeah, thank you for having me. I I really appreciate it. Uh I actually listen to your podcast on a regular basis. Uh, I look forward to it, I find it very informative. Uh, and I know folks uh at my club also listen to it. So, you know, it definitely it's getting out there. Uh, and I appreciate the uh the information that you put out. So thank you guys very much. Appreciate you having me. Well you are yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

Welcome back anytime.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:03

All right. Well, with that, I'll remind everybody if you have questions, comments, whatever, uh rules at uspsa.org. And uh Jody, Troy, and I all get those emails. So we typically will get you an answer back pretty fast. Uh if it's a little delayed, it might be because we're all traveling. Um, I just looked and we have 93 seminars on the books for this year already. So we're one off of last year, I think. Didn't we have 94 last year? 93. That's what I just saw.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

When I looked. Holy moly, man, it gave me a heart attack.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:45

Yeah, it's I mean, there've been a bunch of them have come out in the past week or two. So unless the dashboard statistics are screwed up.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

Yeah, you it it says uh 66 published so far.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:03

Yeah, but it says 29 completed. 27 completed. Because we were at 70 something last last two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

20 27 complete, 39 upcoming, non pending. So 60.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:17

So 27 and 39 is 66. Oh, so we went backwards? Because we were in the 70s last week. Last time, I thought.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:25

Um, I think your math is broken, but well, could be.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:32

Oh, we could have had some seminars. We're at 66.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

66. Um I don't think we've had any canceled. There were two that came up, but um Terry didn't say anything about it. But yeah, we're at 66 right now. But that's uh a faster pace than we were last year at this time, I think. So we're only in the first quarter.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:51

So yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I get if we're doing things in early.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:59

All right. That's okay. I mean, it it is laid out a little funny. It looks like we got more than we got, but complete number 72 numbers in the published is total seminars published as 66. So yeah, there's some. And I think we've assigned all of them.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:16

So there's some real heavy, heavy weeks in there. Um right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:24

Well, Jay and I have one each in Forest Lake in Minnesota coming up in April.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

And uh the CRO course got the got the jump on the guy I want to do the RO course, so they got the clubhouse. So the RO course is being done at a indoor range somewhere for the classroom part anyway. So and then Jay tells me, you know, we can't shoot till 10 o'clock. I'm like, well, that's great. But I think their match their range guy, or whoever the president of the club out there is gonna see if we can start at nine. It's uh it makes it a little easier for people to get done and for Jay and I to get home.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:02

So yeah, it looks like we've got ten seminars in April. Thereabouts.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:12

And still several left in March. Because I'm out this weekend in Albuquerque, and we've got one in Richmond, Albuquerque.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:31

Oakland County Sportsman's Club. Yeah, that's it for March. So we've got four or five of us out this weekend. So being busy.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:47

Alrighty. Well, that was that. Thanks, everybody, and we'll see you again in two weeks. Good night.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:54

Good night.

How To Find NROI Classes

SPEAKER_05 1:04:55

Goodbye. Good night. Are you looking to take your first range officer class? Maybe you're looking to upgrade to chief range officer or audit a seminar to brush up on your rules knowledge. The complete list of upcoming classes can be found by following the link to find NROI seminars under the NROI tab at USPSA.org. No class is near you. Your club can sponsor an NRI seminar. Follow the request seminar link under the NRI tab at USPSA.org.