SPEAKER_01: 0:10

This podcast is brought to you by the National Range Oxford Institute, United States Fraxal Scooting Association, and Steel Town Scooting Association. All rates for this podcast are reserved. No portion of this podcast may be used or redistributed without written permission to the director of the National Range Officer's Institute. Rule discussions on this podcast do not constitute an official ruling. Discussions on this podcast are meant to inform and educate. The only official rulings are published as per the bylaws of the United States Practical Shooting Association. Questions about rules could be emailed to rules at USPSA.org. This is episode 91, recorded early January 2026. Well, hello everyone in a belated happy new year. Welcome to the NRY podcast. I'm Kevin Emway, your host, and with me tonight are the usual suspects, uh Troy McManus, director of NRY. Good evening, Troy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17

Good evening, everyone.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19

And the other assistant director of NRY, Jody Human. Good evening, Jody. Good evening. Yeah, so either one of you have anything you want to go over before we get rolling. Um, this is season five. Um, kind of hard to believe that we've been at it for this is our fifth year, and we're approaching episode 100. Um we got to do something crazy special for episode 100. Um, we had a pretty good episode 90. Um, enjoyed the heck out of having Michael Bain on the podcast. Um, if you haven't listened to that one, you want to go listen to it, hear about the early, early days of USPSA um and Ipsic and NRI and all that good stuff. So, either one of you have anything you want to go over?

SPEAKER_02: 2:10

I don't have anything specific.

SPEAKER_01: 2:13

Do you want to answer the oft-asked question about staff applications for nationals?

SPEAKER_05: 2:19

I can do that. So uh typically we have those out by January 1st over the first week of January uh this year, since we have a new director at large, uh Dan Click, uh, and uh the position listed for that uh list him as uh directors or mass director for the nationals, and I don't think he's gonna delegate that. So he wants to have a meeting, and we're gonna meet this week uh to decide the staff reimbursement package and I guess number of stages, et cetera, et cetera. Uh I really don't know what it's all about, but uh anyway, we're not we're not able to put out a staff application until we get that squared away. And I suspect that as soon as that meeting is over, which would be Thursday, uh we'll have some definite information and I can set them up. Uh the maxes have to be entered on Form C. Uh, and so that's that's where the staff application comes from, from the Form C system. So as soon as they agree on what they're gonna do and put them in the Form C, I can build a staff application. So that's where we are with that. Same thing for Steel Challenge. If you're waiting around for Steel Challenge, it's all gonna be covered in the same meeting.

SPEAKER_01: 3:32

Excellent. And then uh what about the V series Glocks?

SPEAKER_05: 3:40

Oh, the new Glocks?

SPEAKER_01: 3:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 3:42

Um, they haven't sent any paperwork in for those uh as far as saying, hey, this is a new gun. Um so they're not on the approved list right now. I'm a little bit hesitant to put them on the list. I'm going to assume that they will have all their new models out at shot. Uh I'm not going to shock, but um, I'll send Jake uh over by the block booth and have him take a look at them. If there's anything weird, he'll send me pictures of them. Um they typically don't have any size issues, so I'm not worried about putting them in a box there, but uh I'll let him check them out and then make contact with whoever and tell them, hey, if you want these on the production list and good for carry optics, then you better send the paperwork because until they send it in, because it's a whole new line of guns. Uh I'm not just gonna arbitrarily enter them as a oh, it's a block, it's good to go. So that's where we stand with that.

SPEAKER_02: 4:41

Alrighty. Sounds good. Jody, anything? Um no. I take it. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 4:53

I'm getting ready to teach a couple RO classes coming up, but uh I mean, until and gearing up for whenever the board approves the rules changes, so we can update rule books and seminars and yeah, right all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

Yeah, and for those that are curious, we have 53 seminars on the books for 2026 so far. The first two were taught. Uh, we have two done last weekend. Um Matt and Evans were both out teaching. So we're we are underway for 2026.

SPEAKER_05: 5:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 5:29

Looks to be a busy year. We have added two more instructors. Um, Troy, you want to make an announcement about those two gentlemen?

SPEAKER_05: 5:37

Yeah. Um, I was just looking at the at my schedule coming up. I've got seminars for the next five weeks. Well, I skipped one, but yeah, almost five weeks in a row. Last year we did 92, um, which is kind of phenomenal. So we have two instructors that are sort of aging out. Um Paul Hernandez is asking to step back a little bit on his stuff, and George Jones isn't much for traveling out of his area since he moved to California. So we decided to add two new instructors this year. We went through the whole RMI application process, uh, interviewed him, had them prepare presentations on a couple of different topics that we assigned, and then we ranked everybody on about the, what would you say, up, I don't have it in front of me, eight or nine, maybe ten different criteria.

SPEAKER_02: 6:32

Yeah, about that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 6:33

And scored them one to five, and then just went top point sketter was first on the list, second point sketter was second, etc. Uh so we took the top two, and the top two were Russell Fortney, who's the current um area eight director. Um I did send him a note saying that he couldn't uh when he ordered his jerseys, he couldn't have Emperor put it on the back.

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

So and the and the Perrier logo.

SPEAKER_05: 7:01

And the Perrier logo, yeah, neither one of those. Um and then uh so Russ Fortney, the current area eight director. Uh Russ has a ton of experience in matches and stuff and and a uh pretty large amount of instructional experience and is really, really dedicated to the organization and the sport. And then Thomas Howard is the second one that we've added. Uh Thomas is a teacher from Nebraska. Uh Thomas has a uh very vast uh experience in teaching different subjects, not just to high school students or or school subjects, but other things like martial arts and some other things that he sought. And uh a little bit light on experience, but uh he'll pick that up, got a good head on his shoulders and good rules knowledge. So uh those were the top two. Uh the other two applicants were Dan Click and Mike Howell, and uh we rank those accordingly in the in the system. So if one of the top two uh or the new two doesn't work out or or we need another instructor, we can drop down because we've already gone through the process. So uh that's where we are with that. Um hopefully they'll there'll be uh kind of student teaching or or sitting down on some seminars here coming up, and we'll get them started and uh get them on the on the road to teach a seminar. So two new ones.

SPEAKER_01: 8:25

And no no no shade on uh on Mike and Dan, but it was it was a horse race and it wasn't there the points were pretty close. So yeah, it's uh and any of the four, I think we would have been fine. So um, no, looking forward to having you know new new folks in in the pool. Um and especially excited about Thomas because he does bring that you know professional education knowledge uh to the table, uh professional educator uh stuff, and we can pick his brain um on some set on some things and how better maybe we can be presenting some complex topics or things like that. So um I'm looking forward to having him as a resource. So that's gonna be pretty good.

SPEAKER_05: 9:12

Emailing with the two of them, trying to get them set up and and going and giving them a little bit of onboarding. Uh and he's like, Tong said, Wow, I didn't know I was gonna be this busy. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So there is quite a bit of onboarding to do with them because you know they have things they got to sign up for and you know, get a new email address, et cetera, et cetera. But uh, they're picking it up pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00: 9:39

Yeah. Well, also the one thing you give up when you become an instructor is shooting local matches.

SPEAKER_01: 9:45

Right. Kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:46

And even and even bigger matches. I I you know, it's like a lot of times my local matches the same weekends I'm going to teach. And uh, you know, it kind of sucks, but at the same time. Um well, I'll never become a GM, but um, I do like I do like that you know, going out and teaching. It's just it's like I remember I remember my USPSA life before I became an instructor.

SPEAKER_02: 10:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:14

It was a lot calmer.

SPEAKER_01: 10:15

Uh-huh. Oh yeah. Yeah, it it's uncanny how many class requests we get on the weekends that conflict with match with the large, you know, local match. So it's it is what it is, but all right. If there's nothing else, nothing else, we'll go ahead and dive off into the uh mailbag here.

SPEAKER_05: 10:39

Uh yeah. I just wanted to add up uh like to follow up on what y'all were talking about, uh personal time and local matches. I've been doing this for 25 years this year. So instructing. And um it gets more and more hectic every year, I think, and things get a little bit more complicated. So, you know, uh when I show up in a local around here, they're like, Where did you come from?

SPEAKER_02: 11:05

Who are you?

SPEAKER_00: 11:06

I thought you were dead. Well, I like going to matches and like seeing if the newbies know who I am. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03: 11:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 11:16

Because sometimes I'll get put on squad with the new people, right? And I don't say anything, right? But I hear these rules discussions and I'll be like, well, actually the rules this. And they're like, you seem to know the rules. I'm like, yeah, I know them a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 11:34

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Now you mentioned it, Tori. This is this is my 15th year.

SPEAKER_02: 11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:43

Yeah. Damn. Uh it'll be my eighth year. I can't believe it's been that long.

SPEAKER_01: 11:50

Yeah. It's been a long time since I was the new.

SPEAKER_04: 11:56

No, that's true.

SPEAKER_00: 11:58

There's four instructors that are uh at least less experienced than me now.

SPEAKER_05: 12:02

I guess Matt and um Matt and Dan. And Dan get out of the uh F and G status now.

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

Yes, they are no longer F and Gs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:15

I remember when Evans and I graduated from that status. It was nice.

SPEAKER_01: 12:22

Yeah, I was in Georgia's in that status for years, and then I got brought on board and I was only in that status for like a year, and then they added Art Brown, and uh he he got to be FNG for a while. All right, let's dive off into the mailbag. Um I think we kind of have talked about you know the the question of what nine millimeter meter ammo can I use? And because I got an email going on the podcast, used you guys said that you know we're talking only about factory nine millimeter uh ammo. Does that mean we can't use you know handloads? And of course you can use handloads. Um you know it's just go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 13:08

Well, we should qualify with that, though, that you should make sure the handloads are appropriate for your firearm.

SPEAKER_01: 13:14

Well, make sure they're appropriate for a firearm, make sure that they meet the criteria in terms of power factor and uh everything else. Um and even a lot of the factory stuff that's out there, um make sure that that's appropriate for your firearm and um you know that it's gonna give you the velocities you need. Because if you go buy some of the stuff that's out there, factory ammo, that's meant for pistol caliber carbine, it may very well not make power factor in your handgun. And you so just you know be careful. No, you don't want that stuff either. Yeah, and you know, quite honestly, chronographs, you know, good chronographs are there's a bunch of them out there. The Garmin Zeros, there's the uh several other new ones that are kind of clones of the Garmin Zeros.

SPEAKER_05: 14:09

Um came out with one.

SPEAKER_01: 14:12

Yeah, they did. And uh there's one other one that I can't write off the top of my head to remember the name of. But it looks yeah, it looks just like the Garmin Zero. Um and they're not expensive and they are dead simple to use.

SPEAKER_00: 14:28

Uh well, to be honest, even if someone in your club, just the light-based ones aren't even good enough.

SPEAKER_01: 14:37

Oh, they'll tell you that you're getting close.

SPEAKER_00: 14:40

Yeah.

unknown: 14:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:41

I mean, my my Garmin and my light-based chrono that I have are very close, closer than my lab radar and the light-based chrono. Yeah. So um, you don't have to go buy the most expensive chrono. Just I don't recommend the muzzle attached ones, but especially for handgun.

SPEAKER_01: 15:00

Um they seem to be fine for a rifle, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:06

Yeah. Just use a light, you can get a light-based one for cheap. Um, if anyone wants a deal on a uh lab radar, let me know.

SPEAKER_01: 15:14

Um marketplace. Yeah, those things, uh those big ones. Yeah, those are gonna be hard to move.

SPEAKER_00: 15:24

But well, maybe I should hang on to the lab radar until I finish the chrono module.

SPEAKER_01: 15:29

Yeah. The elements. So anyway, just yeah, do yourself a favor or find a buddy that's got one. Um, especially if you're shooting something with a not a five-inch barrel. If you're shooting like a three and a quarter inch barrel or a four or four quarter and a quarter inch barrel, it's worth checking just to make sure, especially before you start going and shooting majors. So, but no, hand loads are fine. Um just, you know, all the right, you know, follow all the rules of hand loading. If you've never hand loaded before, um, yeah, take a class. There's lots of video classes out there on it. NRA teaches uh reloading class, which I find humorous because they won't let you use reloads in most of their classes, but um, you know, whatever. Um, so yeah, see what you can, you know, but whatever. And that that goes for any caliber. We don't require factory ammo on any caliber. Um, even 22 long rifle. If you have the capacity to load your own 22 long rifle, knock yourself out. Um that'd be a pretty good trip.

SPEAKER_05: 16:36

But I think probably we've mentioned certified ammo in the past on a bunch of the podcasts.

unknown: 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 16:43

And that might have led to this little bit of confusion too. So that is technically not hand-loaded ammo, it's factory ammo, so to speak. It's loaded by smaller companies. Uh, but that's not a bad alternative either if you don't want to get into the uh reloading stuff. Because you know, that's an investment in machines and equipment and components and time. So that's why the certified ammo program is out there. So not a bad choice. Just be careful who you buy from. Make sure you buy from somebody that's actually on the list and somebody that uh you know puts out decent ammo.

SPEAKER_00: 17:18

So and also, you know, when it gets close to major match season, if your local club has the box or someone in the club has the USPSA box, the mag gauge, and a chronograph, you can either run chronograph as the official stage of your local match or at least have the tools there available so people can check their gear.

SPEAKER_01: 17:38

Do courtesy chronograph before or after the match. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a it's a good idea and it saves the embarrassment. Um and so yeah. All right. Um and I think we've gone over this one in the past as well, but we got a couple questions about you know, the Steel Challenge low-ready sign and what size we actually require for that. Um, you know, people are wanting to use sponsor things, or well, you know, we we went out and bought these other things before the rule got changed. Why can't we use those? So I thought we could talk about those low-ready um what flag signs, aiming points, whatever you want to call them.

SPEAKER_05: 18:29

Right. So I answered one of those questions, uh so the rule is 823 in the steel challenge rule book, and it's for rim fire pistol, rim fire rifle, and pistol caliber carbine. Uh so that's anything that starts with low-ready. Uh, there'll be an aiming point, which can be a marker, a cone, a flag, or a sign at a maximum of nine inches wide. So nine inches is the diameter of a basketball. And that's sort of an ideal that we set on uh so that you're not pointing in the general direction of your first target. You have to be pointed at that, uh, both muzzled down at it and muzzled to the lateral side one way or the other. And so, you know, people want to ask, well, if he's pointing at the outer edge of the sign, is it a nine-inch circle past that? And the answer is no. You can't just keep increasing the size of your of your aiming point, right? Right. So that comes under the just freaking stop it kind of thing. Um get yourself a nine-inch circle. Or it can be smaller, but they still got to be pointing at it, right? That's why we say cones are okay. But I've seen people use cones, and you get an 18-inch cone and you put a six or eight inch sign on it, and it's nine inches or so. Well, the center of it is pretty much good, right? And you're aiming at it. Um, it's not supposed to be a precise, a very precise aiming. Point where you have to be aimed exactly at it. But it also can't be halfway to the first target either, right? Because that is a competitive advantage. And uh when when Mike Foley was president, his his concept was beach ball, but beach ball's pretty big, right? And you can get different size beach balls.

SPEAKER_01: 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 20:19

They don't really make different size basketballs unless you go to the little smaller ones that they do in the arcades and stuff. But uh so nine inches is the the diameter of it. If it's square, it's the width of it, right? And uh 10 feet away and 18 to 24 inches high. So those are the specs. Stick to those and you won't have any issues. I don't know why you would not take that plain language and just uh build something that works, right?

SPEAKER_02: 20:49

Yeah, you'd think.

SPEAKER_05: 20:52

I mean, even if you don't have uh a nine-inch wide circle or a nine-inch wide square or something up there, you just have the tip of a cone, they can still be four and a half inches off either way part of that center, right? Right. Which isn't a lot, right? Because it's designed to be a more or less more precise aiming point.

SPEAKER_01: 21:10

It's an aiming point, not a genuinely pointing at it point.

SPEAKER_05: 21:14

Right. And people will, I mean, I start like this, I'll point my gun at the aiming point, but I point my head at the first target so that when I bring the gun up, the sights are there. So that's not illegal either. I've had a couple of weird questions about that. Well, he wasn't even looking at his sights. Well, he doesn't have to. It's where the gun's pointed and where his eyes are pointed, it can be different as long as he's not cheating, you know, big time on one direction or the other.

SPEAKER_00: 21:42

So well, I mean, how many pistol shooters are looking at the cone? Yeah, they look at the first target, so why can't the uh sure rim fire people do that?

SPEAKER_01: 21:51

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 21:56

Next question. Um RO are club matches and have always wondered how I could intercept a left-handed shooter if need be, whereas a right-handed shooter has no table in the way for me to interact with the shooter. So this must be still challenge.

unknown: 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:11

What I'm asking asking is is there a rule or a special way we should be setting up the table like midpoint of the array? So the left-handed shooter has the table on their right side and the like normal the right-handed shooter has the table on their left. I always feel I can't interact, I can't react fast enough if need be with our left-handed guys and gals, which really begs the question, what do you mean interact with? Are you trying to grab them, lock them?

SPEAKER_00: 22:37

I kind of, you know, generally stand behind the shooter, too. I mean, off to the side. But I guess when I've RO steel challenge, the left shooter used to stand on the opposite side of the shooter, and the tables like shouldn't be right on top of the shooting area. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:58

A lot of places will put out two barrels, one for left-handed shooters and one for right-handed shooters, or use whichever barrel you feel most comfortable with.

SPEAKER_00: 23:06

Well, maybe this were also relates to the question we had a while ago about people don't want people to have to like question table and barrel placement, that you know, they shouldn't be able to shouldn't have to step out of the box to use the table or the barrel, right? Right. Um, you don't have to have the table touching the box or the barrel touching the box. They can step out of the box to grab their mags. That's a perfect little thing. But I guess it the table shouldn't be so close to the shooting area that you can't observe the shooter either.

unknown: 23:43

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 23:44

But that's it's I mean, if you gotta scoot the table. I think what he was wanting to do was, you know, actually physically stop a competitor if they were gonna point up range or something silly like that. But that's not how we do it, right? So your voice is your tool. Um, we typically don't put our hands on the competitors for any reason unless we're helping them up if they fell down, I guess. But um, there's no reason to do that, right? Um, you risk the competitor tightening up if you if you grab them for something and maybe the gun goes off because they screwed a finger or something.

unknown: 24:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 24:20

So it's not a good idea. You don't need to be up in their hip pocket either. So you can move the table a little bit if you want. I mean, it's not a big deal. And like Goody said, if you have to step out of the box to get your magazine, so what? It's this is back to the whole magic box theory, right? Box ain't magic. It's just a place that you have to shoot from within. So if you step out of it, it's great. If you are stepping into it and somebody says make ready, it's not the cardinal sin. Okay. So it's just a box and arrange things where it's convenient for the competitors as long as it's the same for all of them, then you're good to go.

SPEAKER_00: 25:01

And really the table isn't a factor in steel challenge, right?

SPEAKER_05: 25:07

Yeah, no, it's not.

SPEAKER_00: 25:08

So if the table can be moved around and the left-hand shooter, what's it on the left or the barrel? Or on the right, I guess it would be for the left-handed shooter.

SPEAKER_02: 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:17

That's fine, because it's the table's not used during the course of fire. You know, so um it's kind of like have it sitting there. I mean, every time I've seen lefties shoot, they're just used to living in a right-handed world.

SPEAKER_02: 25:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:39

So that it doesn't bother them. But um, I don't know. It was a it was a it was an unusual question, but like Troy said, usually we use our voice. Right? And maybe it's because we're we're used to use uh our own competition matches where we do not want to be right on top of the shooter. Right? And so we always will just yell and stop the shooter. Um still challenge them, other than outer limits, they're standing still. Right.

SPEAKER_05: 26:17

Well, really, outer limits, you you're gonna move with them, so there's not a problem because they're starting on the other side, right?

SPEAKER_03: 26:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 26:24

So it's uh uh to me that's a non-problem. And you shouldn't be putting your hands on the competitors. I mean, I can think of maybe a couple of crazy scenarios where you might need to, but in general, that's that's just a no. Don't touch them.

SPEAKER_00: 26:41

Is this like just freaking stop?

SPEAKER_01: 26:43

Just freaking stop it, pretty much, yeah. Okay. Uh next question. I had a competitor shooting at PCC who had really time-consuming malfunction, causing him to run short of ammo on the last three targets. As soon as the gun was empty, he proceeded to point it at each of those targets and press the trigger. The gun was devoid of ammunition. The hammer was not cocked. He simply pressed the trigger while aiming at the last three targets he didn't shoot at. He also ran into me but didn't ask for a reshoot. As I was scoring and assessing the failure to shoot out penalties on those targets, he questioned why he was getting the FTSA penalties because um, actually getting the FTS, because I pointed the gun at them and touched the trigger. I explained that he didn't fire a shot at them, therefore the FTSA penalties applied. He then stated that he had the same thing happen at an area championship and was not assessed the penalties, only the misses for those targets because he quote unquote engaged them by pointing and clicking. Yeah, Gala loved some of these questions.

SPEAKER_00: 27:45

Well, also, I will tell you right away, that's the old RO intimidation trick. You tell the ROs, you question their call and tell them, well, at nationals or at an area match, right? They scored it this way, and 99% of the time it's a total lie.

SPEAKER_05: 28:01

Yeah, I think it was in this case too, because I I that was me. And I'm watching this guy do this, and I'm thinking, what in the hell is he doing? Right. I mean, obviously out of ammo. He didn't say pew pew or pow pow or nothing like that. He just like touched the trigger, right? Didn't rack the rack the bolt, nothing. Just tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, pointing at all these targets. And so I'm like, well, whatever. So we get done and I start scoring, and he's like, Why are you giving me those? I said, Well, because you didn't shoot at them. Well, yeah, but I pointed the gun and touched the trigger. I said, You didn't fire a shot, so FTSA means failure to shoot at. You did not shoot at them, therefore the penalties apply. And he goes, Oh, well, then that's when he told me he had it happen at an area match. And I was like, Well, I don't care what they did there, but this is what we're doing here. So I did follow up with the area match RM in question and the area match uh area director, and they said they never heard of that. So uh I'm gonna guess that he was doing the what Jody did was uh well they let me get by the Nashville's. Yeah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00: 29:14

But well, then the fact that he tried to pull it over on the DNRI is also entertaining.

SPEAKER_05: 29:23

It was really weird, right? Because the other thing that happened during that whole run was he he got in the middle of it and he and he had a double feed, then he had a stuck cakes, right? So he's trying to change bags and throwing them on the ground, which is why he ran out of ammo, and then he couldn't get it clear. And one of the squad members who is also a certified CRO and a guy I know very well, comes up and he's handed him a knife.

SPEAKER_03: 29:52

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_05: 29:52

And I'm like, no. And he's what? Back up, you know. I was like, man, it was a comedy of errors. But he actually had to reach down to the ground and found a little piece of uh limestone that had an edge on it, and he flipped the he flipped the the stuckcase out with that, which I thought was pretty ingenious. But you know, when he ran out and then you know, click, click, click, click, click, click. I'm like, yeah, no, that's anyway. The things you see on a shooting rain sometimes. Right. It would have been funnier if he'd have gone pew pew or pow pow or something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 30:33

Well, yeah, pew pew ding, pew pew.

SPEAKER_04: 30:37

Paka poka ping ping.

SPEAKER_01: 30:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:43

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01: 30:45

Oh, okay, mental note to self, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:48

Um and and the reason we do not allow this is because when does what what measures the time? The timer.

SPEAKER_02: 30:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 30:55

And there's no way to add time from those imaginary shots on the timer.

SPEAKER_05: 31:02

I mean, I guess I could have stood behind him and slapped it every time he touched the trigger.

SPEAKER_00: 31:09

Yeah, but I wouldn't wanted him to rack the bolt every time, though.

SPEAKER_01: 31:13

Right. Yeah. Okay, next one. During a stage walkthrough, a competitor exclaimed, My gun fell. Am I DQ'd? Thanks to my wife, also an RO, who had noted 10-514, I gave him the universal stop just in case as he bent down to grab it and picked it up, declared, reholstered it, explained it wasn't a DQ outside of the course of fire, as long as he didn't touch it to pick it up. Um, you know, holster lock snagged in in the rain while covering it, uncovering the gun. My question was the gun likely swept the group up range as it fell out of the race holster, but no one saw it. And I'm mostly sure we can't penalize based on an assumption. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_05: 31:58

Heck yeah, it's correct.

SPEAKER_01: 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 32:01

It's also not sweeping if he didn't have it in his hand.

SPEAKER_02: 32:04

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown: 32:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 32:07

And it was unloaded. Yeah, well, I mean it's supposed to be unloaded.

SPEAKER_00: 32:11

That doesn't matter, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 32:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 32:14

Yeah. So yeah, it's just, you know, that that we get that question every now and again. It's like, well, a guy dropped his empty gun out of his holster, but it ended pointing right at his leg, you know, like, well, so you can pick it up.

SPEAKER_00: 32:31

Now, if you drop it during a coursifier or falls out of your holster during a course of fire, that's a different story.

SPEAKER_01: 32:38

That's a whole different story.

SPEAKER_00: 32:39

But also the coursifier, as long as you don't pick it up, you're okay.

SPEAKER_01: 32:43

Yeah. All right. Uh, next one. Any advice for a newer RO and hopefully hopelessly average shooter? I think you just subscribe to a lot of people. Uh, that's most of us. Yeah, I'm certainly hopelessly average on how to let a squad know I'm certified and available to help beyond just running timer or tablet. Like you all know it on the podcast or in the blog at level one matches, we'll see the occasional bad call or uncertainty about the rules, like the drop gun incident above. He was also the person to send in the previous question. I don't run around telling everybody I'm an RO, but I try to point things out and be helpful. But sometimes it feels like it falls on deaf ears. And pulling out my RO secret decoder ring seems a bit off strange in most cases. A little too South Park uh Cartman, respect my authorite.

SPEAKER_00: 33:30

Like to respect my authorite.

SPEAKER_01: 33:32

Yeah. Um, but any hints, trip, tips, tricks for those of you who have done it longer term would be most welcome.

SPEAKER_05: 33:43

I just looked out there and say, respect my authority.

SPEAKER_00: 33:49

When I was a newer RO CRO, you know, I shot at clubs. You know, a lot of times I was the only lady at the matches, right? And I found that I was really kind of intimidated by the guys. It was all guys, they'd been shooting a lot longer than me, right? And I usually would be under my breath being like, that's not the right call. And I finally got up the courage to be like, they'd make a call, be like, I don't think that's right, you know. And I'd actually end up pulling out the rule book and showing them it was wrong. Um but yeah, I there's that fine line. If you come in there and are like, I don't know, I guess bragging that you're RO and trying to correct everyone's calls and stuff, sometimes that's not good either. But part of it is, you know, falling on deaf ears. I get that. That's kind of goes back to club culture. Um, unfortunately. I mean, I would just be like, hey, I think it's actually this and show them in the rule book. And you know, if they tend to they choose to ignore it then, well then I'd find a different squad of people to shoot with, frankly. Um or a different club if need be. But um you know, after a while, the club I shot at, you know, figured out I knew what I was talking about when it came to the rules and uh you know started asking me rules questions. So and then, well, look where I am now. I made some mistakes.

SPEAKER_01: 35:24

Um now you're paying dependence.

SPEAKER_00: 35:27

Now I don't get to shoot matches anymore. No. Um because I'm too busy. Um, but you know, it is tough to if I guess it depends on your club culture, right? If you're on a squad with a lot of ROs, I I mean, when I'm on a squad with a lot of ROs, especially people I have been in my RO class and they're kind of not holding the timer, I tend to make them hold the timer. Um but if you are like one person on a squad of people who don't really want to follow the rules, it's gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_03: 36:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 36:04

And the best thing you can do is just try to do things right the best you can. But at the same time, I get not wanting to cause too much controversy because you want to keep coming to the club.

SPEAKER_05: 36:18

Yeah. I mean, you don't want to be confrontational.

unknown: 36:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 36:21

You want to bring it up as a, hey guys, uh, let's look at this because I I don't think that's right kind of thing. You get a little bit more um uh agreement like that, or just lead by example, right? Get out there and start doing things the right way. I'm I'm a little confused about the statement he made. Um what's it say? Available to help beyond just running the time on the tablet. I mean, I don't get what else we would be doing, uh actually, but I guess if you're trying to coach people along as far as their ROI goes, that's probably a nice thing.

SPEAKER_01: 36:59

Well, providing stages or helping run the match, you know, the MD stuff, do staff stuff. I mean, it I most clubs, at least that I've been associated with, um, are more than happy to at least you know take stage designs from pretty much anybody. Right um, and you know, if they're not using them, then you might want to check in and go, hey, were was there a problem with those? Was it not legal? Do we not have the props? Um, you know, that's but yeah, that's most, you know, most clubs need all the help, you know, that they can get to put on matches because where you find a club that goes, no, you know, we have Bill's always our MD and he's done it for years. Well, pretty quick, Bill's burned out. Now nobody knows how to do the job, and everybody's struggling to put on matches. And true story, because I've watched I've watched it happen twice at a club. Um so it's you know, and it's it makes for some a rocky road there for a little bit. So it's always better to have lots of people helping, and that way when one person has to step aside, even if it's just for a month, um, it just things, as far as the shooters know, nothing happened. You know, you know, Bill didn't show up for the match, but hey, still had the match, ran just like always.

SPEAKER_05: 38:22

So yeah. But you know, affecting a cultural change, no matter where you're doing it, doesn't happen overnight either. No, right? It's gonna be a gradual process that's gotta be approached correctly. Um, but you know, it it does happen. The change does happen. And I've seen it around here at some of the local matches, and it was mostly uh, I say this a lot, there's four clubs I can go shoot at, and three of them do things by the book, and the other one had a historic uh uh historic record of not doing things by the by the rule book, right? Um, and when I used to go shoot with them, I'd always just make them mad right off the bat because I'd go look at those stages, it's like this, hey man, this stage ain't legal, right? Yeah and uh stuff like that. So then they'd have to move stuff around. They would do it, but they really hated, I think, to see me show up. Uh, because I kind of held their feet to the fire. I knew them all, right?

unknown: 39:19

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 39:20

And so they've changed leadership over the years, and they've got some different people there that that are more interested in doing things by the book. Um, and they have the last report I got was they were doing things right. So, but it takes time, right? Uh, don't get discouraged if if you're not making much headway. Um, and you got to kind of maybe sometimes talk to the right people, right? And just have an honest and frank conversation with your mass director and say, look, you know, we're we're doing a disservice to our to our guy shooting here because we're not doing this right, right? So maybe from that angle you get a little bit more traction, right? Let's let's treat our Members, our customers, a little bit better and make sure that we're doing stuff right. So then when they go to the section match, when they go to the area match, uh they're not taking the bad habits they learned here or the or the erroneous rules interpretations or whatever they're getting, right? Oh, I hit that popper, you should count it. No, that's probably not gonna happen. Um, you know, stuff like that. So it's a gradual thing. I I would encourage you to to keep trying. I've known range masters that went back to their home clubs and and got shouted down, right?

SPEAKER_01: 40:32

You two of them are sitting on this podcast.

SPEAKER_05: 40:36

Yeah. Well, more than that, too. But I mean, it's it's kind of the approach and it's kind of the hard-headedness of the folks you you have there, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 40:45

I have uh it also it also depends on how many of your club members go to matches outside that club. Yep. If the club is predominantly people who just shoot that local match and that is it, they may not care about I've noticed a lot of those clubs maybe don't care about the rules as much until they get a group of people who are going to matches outside the club, and especially like level twos and level threes. Because those people tend to come back and be like, hey, our club needs to follow the rules.

SPEAKER_01: 41:18

Right. Well, you know, it's I know of an instance where a club, you know, club culture got several members of a single club because they showed up for their very first area match, and several of them went home for very similar DQs because they, you know, handling loaded magazines and loading ammunition in this on the safe area table. Um, because that was something that was tolerated at the club level, and they didn't think even think about it when they went to a bigger match. And um I I've heard that those guys went back to the club and went, yeah, no, we need to stop this crap because that it cost me cost me that.

SPEAKER_02: 42:00

So, you know, that's yeah, it's it really is a disservice if you're not following all the rules.

SPEAKER_05: 42:09

Well, I like to equate that to you know, people don't take outside advice that well, right? So if you're new there, they're gonna think, well, here's this new guy telling me what to do. So many years ago when I was a dumb college kid, I was working offshore Louisiana, and they were offloading the piece of our equipment, uh, testing equipment back onto the workbook so they could take it back to the shop. And my operator told me, go tell that crane operator that he's got to triple swing that unit because it's like really heavy. So I'm like, sure. So of course I'd run up there like a like a dumb newbie and stick my head in the crane guy operator's thing, and I say, Hey, my operator says you got to triple swing that thing. And man, he just ripped me up one side and down the other. You know, I've been doing this for 30 something years. I don't know, went behind the ears, college boy telling me what to do. I was like, Yes, sir. So ran back down. My operator said, Did you tell him? I said, Yeah. He said, Why aren't they doing it? I said, Well, because he told me to get lost, basically, right? Not the exact words that he said, but you know, uh, so they picked it up and they got it out over the water until the swings snapped off it, and he dropped a two million dollar unit in about 90 feet of Gulf of Mexico. So and uh it ended up that he was on that boat going back to the beach because he was gone.

SPEAKER_01: 43:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_05: 43:40

So sometimes, you know, if uh the old guys that are doing things wrong are gonna tell you off. But I mean, you might want to maybe outline the consequences too of what happens if they don't do it right, right? Probably nothing that drastic, but I mean try not to be intimidated, I guess is what I'm telling you. So I I passed the message on and I was like, all right, buddy, you do what you want.

SPEAKER_01: 44:02

So my okay. Moving on. Um gentlemen wrote in my new holster for my revolver would not be here for another week. Yay, revolvers, not in time for a steel challenge this weekend. So, two questions. Can I shoot the revolver from a low ready like rim fire? If not, I understand is the draw is part of the equation. And then uh number two, why no holster draw for rim fire? Is that a safety issue? So um tradition, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:37

Yeah, well, the answer to number one is no issue from low ready.

SPEAKER_05: 44:42

I have a question about that. Is is his holster new or is revolver new and he's waiting on a holster? Because obviously it sounds like he had an old holster somewhere.

SPEAKER_00: 44:52

Uh they're both new.

SPEAKER_01: 44:54

I'm thinking they're both new. Yeah, okay. Well, I I chopped a bunch of words out that weren't necessary to that sentence. I might change the sentence a little bit.

SPEAKER_05: 45:02

But uh yeah, it's um and then the number two answer. Jody got number one right. It's a that's a no. The number two is because when Remfire was incepted and it's still challenged, uh especially Remfire handguns, um, there were there weren't any holsters for those.

SPEAKER_01: 45:23

Well, there were holsters, just not race holsters.

SPEAKER_05: 45:26

Right. There's still not a plethora of holsters for Remfire guns out there. So um, but I mean that's kind of the way it's always been. And it was also supposed to be an introductory thing for the younger crowd.

SPEAKER_04: 45:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 45:38

Um, so no need to make them draw, right? Yeah. Uh and as long as it's all the same, and we go back to the the question about aiming points, then then we're doing good. That's how it works.

SPEAKER_01: 45:50

Yeah, and instead the younger crowd has schooled the old older crowd on how fast you can frickin' do it. Oh well. Damn kids. Anyway. Um, all right. I've been around many different competitive shooting disciplines over the last 40 years. This seems to be the only one where competitors can smoke on the range and not at only a designated area. Is this the case? If so, great for them. If not, how is this enforced? And it's not. That's there's nothing in our rule book that talks about smoking or anything else like that. It's that falls under the heading of a range rule. So the organization that owns and controls the range is going to make up rules about where you can and can't smoke. Um, there are ranges in our area that have um very designated smoking areas, largely because of forest fire danger, uh wildfire danger. Um, you know, so it's it's but it's has nothing to do with the USBSA rules. Or steel challenge rules for that matter.

SPEAKER_05: 46:56

I will say, in addition to that, though, if you're in a crowd of people that you can't get away from somebody smoking, you know, there's nothing wrong with asking them not to smoke near you. Um so that is sort of an aggravating thing, you know. Uh, but yeah, we don't have any rules about it. There are some ranges that prohibit it, like you said, uh, or want you to go to a certain area to do it. Some don't. So you just gotta roll with whatever you have.

SPEAKER_01: 47:24

Yep. Yeah. And some of them only do it during fire season.

SPEAKER_02: 47:28

So all right.

SPEAKER_01: 47:30

Um, I was shooting a match where classifier 2504 was used. The leftmost wall is about four inches too close to the rear fault line on the left side, and one to two inches left outside of the fault line. Makes it really tight for PCC on the left target with hardcover, much harder lean positioning on top and on the rear of the fault line than if the stage had been set correctly. This was also chloroplast on the walls extending rearward into the shooting area, inch and a half, shortening the overhaul shooting space by five and a half inches total. So, in terms of a tolerance for setup, what is the magic number and how close does everything really need to be? We've heard close as possible, but what is really acceptable tolerance? Can this even be assessed? I see it as a tolerance is greatly dependent on the scale and size of the stage and proximity of the shooter to the walls, targets, etc., and can be somewhat stage specific. It was close enough to impact transitions around the wall to the second target from the left. PC shooters had to lean back to avoid the wall and some hit the wall during transition.

SPEAKER_00: 48:36

So well, I'm looking at that diagram from that stage. Um he said it was four inches too close to the rear fault line. It's a pretty big uh distance there. But the big thing is with classifiers, if you see them off by a whole bunch, say something.

SPEAKER_01: 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:00

Um looking at the diagram, it's four feet. It's supposed to be four feet from the rear fault line that wall. So it could be four inches, isn't it? It's not it shouldn't be four inches off, but four inches with four feet. Because I would be standing in the rear fault line when I shot.

SPEAKER_05: 49:23

That's yeah, it's hard to judge that from the description, but it it's gotta be closer than that.

SPEAKER_00: 49:28

Yeah, it's gotta be closer.

SPEAKER_05: 49:29

I mean, it should be like an inch off, I wouldn't complain, but four inches off and causing a lean. If all of this description is correct, yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't submit the results for that classifier.

SPEAKER_00: 49:41

Yeah, because that target's supposed to be two feet off the wall.

SPEAKER_05: 49:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 49:46

Anyway, but yeah, I mean we need pictures, but yeah, it it shouldn't be that. I mean, I set up stages with a lot of engineers and then get asked what the tolerance is for a classifier because they can't set it up with there isn't. Yeah. I was like an inch. I always kind of tell them an inch. I go and just go to set the stage. But um you know, that's the thing where sometimes things get missed by missed by the setup group. And especially if the first squad notices things are off, they should say something. And if the third squad notices it, and it's a big difference, they should fix it and have people re-shoot the stage. Or don't submit the stage as a classifier, leave it as a stage for the match, but just take the classifier code off of it and practice score so it doesn't count.

SPEAKER_01: 50:38

Absolutely. Okay, next question. I was looking through the approved firearms list for carry optics division and see that my shadow systems MR920P is not approved on account of the integrated compensator. P must be be for ported. I also see that in the Smith and Wesson section they have a card out, carve out that says all ported models qualify so long as the barrel installed in the gun is not ported. Does that same language apply to the shadow systems as well? May I participate with the compensator removed or with the standard MR920 barrel installed? And the answer is yes. Um, there are lots of there are a few, at least used to be a few of the Glock models that are ported. Um there's various and sundry others that are offer ported model. Just put in a non-ported barrel and you're good to go.

SPEAKER_05: 51:27

Yeah. Take the comp off if you're good. Put a non-ported barrel, you're good. Ports in the slide don't count. It's just ports in the barrel. Anything that redirects gases. So unfortunately, yeah, the industry has seen fit to start building in compensators and weird stuff like cuts in the slide that act like a compensator, et cetera. It's just making it tougher across the board. But uh, if it's gonna redirect gases somewhere, it's a compensator. I don't care what they call it.

SPEAKER_01: 52:00

Yep. And you know, and a lot of people run a foul of this. Um, well, not a lot of people, a lot of people that shoot revolver run a foul of this because the Smith Wesson 929 comes with a comp on the end of the barrel um that you can screw off and take that off and shoot it uncompensated. Um and I think they even uh offer a blank that you can put it on in its place, um, but people don't realize that. So just be aware that they're um at least for now. Um, those are not legit. Not to say that it won't change. Okay, uh, next question. I'm interested in participating in your USPSA matches. Wanted to ask a question beforehand. Due to a past injury, my mobility and walking speed are slower than average, especially moving between positions on a course. I'm still fully capable of shooting safely and following all the match rules, but I know moving speed is a significant part of scoring in USPSA. Wouldn't know it to watch me shoot. Um my main goal isn't to place highly or be competitive on this course. You know, I'm primarily looking to participate for practice and repetition so I can learn the overall flow, stage planning, and shooting fundamentals that USPSA involves. I don't mind being a scored if that's standard, but placement and points aren't important to me. I just wanted to confirm whether it's acceptable to participate with that mindset and whether there are any considerations I should be aware of before signing up. By all means, get out there and do it. Um there's you know, there are a number of handicapped people that participate in our sports, um, steel challenge, especially, um, because there's so little movement required. Um, you know, get out, have fun, uh, enjoy the sport. Um, and if anybody gives you a hard time, tell them to go pound sand because um, you know, you have just you pay the match fee, you have just as much right to be there as anybody else.

SPEAKER_05: 54:00

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of us that are slower than average. I mean also we have a guy that competes and shoots with his feet.

SPEAKER_02: 54:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 54:10

So there's there's really no limits on what you can do if you set your mind to it. So yeah, bring your gun and your ammo and go shoot.

SPEAKER_01: 54:19

Yeah. If you want to see that video, come to him, you know, sign up for an RO class. And it's that's one of the videos we show specifically to emphasize this sport is for everybody. Um, yeah, and it's pretty amazing watching him shoot with his with his feet. The guy does not have arms. It's not like it's just trick shooting. He does not have arms. Um, and he's shooting with his feet. He sits down in a chair and he shoots. But it is um, you know, it's amazing to watch, and I stand in awe every time I play that video for a class of that he actually took it upon, you know, took it upon himself to learn how to do that and do it safely. Um, that's that's pretty freaking cool. So okay. Um at a local level one match where a competitor shot at a popper and it did not fall, he did hit it, but wasn't but because we don't routinely paint the matter each competitor, it was unclear as to whether where he hit it. He left it standing and completed the course of fire. After he unloaded and showed clear, he challenged and asked for calibration. Now RM told him that since the popper had not been painted, we had no way of knowing where his bullet hit on the popper and he was not entitled to a calibration challenge. This stage was scored as a shot and the shooter was quite unhappy. I cannot find anywhere in the rules where it states that a popper must be painted between competitors as a prerequisite for such a challenge. The shooter, although unhappy, displayed good sportsmanship and reluctantly accepted the RM rolling. Good for them. What was the RM correct? Whatever responsible he decided to put in rolls.

SPEAKER_02: 55:54

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00: 55:56

That was a bad RM.

SPEAKER_02: 55:59

Yeah, bad call.

SPEAKER_00: 56:02

I mean, the basically what the RM should have done was asked the RO, did he hit the popper? And if the RO said no, he hit the base, okay. No RM. No R no challenge.

SPEAKER_05: 56:15

Well, he says that it was hit. This guy says it was hit.

SPEAKER_00: 56:18

Yeah, but if the RO says, no, I saw it hit the face of the popper, then the RM should have been like, let me grab the calibration ammo.

SPEAKER_05: 56:25

Yeah, absolutely. What calibration ammo?

SPEAKER_00: 56:30

Anyone got any white boxes?

SPEAKER_01: 56:35

Yeah, that's the you do not want to use Winchester white box as your calibration ammo.

SPEAKER_00: 56:39

Order some stuff from Ely or have someone load some stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 56:42

Well, white box, at least the couple boxes of white box that I've had that I've run over the chronograph. Oh, that's hot. Yeah. I've had some stuff hit like 140. So um, yeah, you don't want to be shooting that as calibration ammo. But I've been at matches where it's like, hey, you're winning a white box, and that's what calibration ammo. It's like, well, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 57:04

Um so just to be complete, the rule that that I cited when I answered him was 43171. Level one encouraged to paint, but not required. Pauper's that are not repainted can be can be challenged for calibration unless the RO determines that the popper was not hit. So not painted. I think he was that RM was conflating painting with hit, but uh either way, that was a bad decision.

SPEAKER_00: 57:34

Or he was confused about the steel challenge rule change. Where if the plates aren't painted, you can't challenge and miss.

SPEAKER_05: 57:41

Maybe so, but different rule set.

SPEAKER_01: 57:44

Different rule set, different game.

SPEAKER_05: 57:46

That should be obvious from where you're standing.

SPEAKER_01: 57:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 57:51

What? This is the weirdest steel challenge match I ever went to.

SPEAKER_01: 57:55

There's a whole lot of movement in this steel challenge match. What's the problem with the biggest?

SPEAKER_00: 57:59

Yeah, they didn't put the we are we are shooting poppers instead of plates on stands.

SPEAKER_01: 58:06

Hey Mr. Your Steel fell over. Yeah. That's why I love poppers that have the separate faces that just sit in a slot. Because every once in a while, somebody that's only ever shot a popper with a hinge, they'll shoot it, and the face goes flying out and lands on the ground. Oh, I think I just broke your popper. No, I'll keep shooting.

SPEAKER_00: 58:28

So that's coaching, Coven.

SPEAKER_01: 58:32

What's that?

SPEAKER_00: 58:33

That was coaching.

SPEAKER_01: 58:34

Yeah. I didn't say it, but I want to reshoot. No, I just told them nope, it's fine. And they just kept going. So yeah, I've had that happen several times. So with various incendies of those types of buffers. So all right, that's all I had on the list for tonight. Um, anybody got anything else?

SPEAKER_05: 58:57

Um I really don't. Uh, we're gonna have people, well, we're gonna have people attending the shot show and probably looking at the some of the new stuff that's coming out and talking to sponsors, uh, et cetera, et cetera, just making some connections. Uh, as I mentioned, I'm not going to it. There's not much for me to do other than go box a few guns and uh I can do that when they send it to me. So doesn't pay to go, and I got other stuff to do anyway. So uh but uh staff apps again coming out as soon as we can finalize uh staff reimbursement packages and and all that. And uh if you're thinking about scheduling a seminar, you should get after it, man, because it's gonna get busy, especially as the weather warms and people get out and shoot more, they're not gonna want to go to seminars, they're not gonna want to have seminars, although it didn't seem to slow anybody down last year. So yeah. But we do tend to do a lot of them in the spring, you know, late. Winter, early spring, and then you know, late fall, early winter. So uh you know, there's only 11 of us, and and two of them aren't traveling that much, so we're gonna be a little bit stressed in until we get the new guys trained up, but it's coming. But just you know, if you're thinking about it, schedule one.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:18

And you can't really do the well, there's you know, 11 of you, and so there's you know, there's not 11 seminars happening this weekend. How come you nobody's available? Well, we also have lives.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:30

And there's other things too. I mean, go look at the match list, but no.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:35

Yeah, you got matches to matches to shoot, you got um, you know, some people have uh families that they need, they actually like their families and they want to spend time with them. Um, you know, they've got other, you know, other sports they participate in that take some of their time, you know. So um not you know, just because we have 11 seem to be 13 instructors doesn't mean we have 13 people available every weekend. Um that said, just looking through the list, there are a couple weekends in the first couple months here of the year where there's a lot of seminars happening on that weekend. So um, you know, it's that's probably our max carrying capacity. Um, but yeah, once major match season starts, we've got instructors that are involved in matches. Um, so it it really cuts down on the availability. So don't don't try and do that kind of math. And if you're looking to get a class in this spring, um I would I would get it put in tomorrow um at you know as or as soon as you possibly can because things are really filling up fast. And um I you know there's already several seminars and that have already been requested for the fall. So um it's it's gonna be a busy year. And that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:01

So I do have one more thing. Um we have uh an update coming to the forum C system. So if you're a mass director, a range master, uh anything that needs to go onto a forum C, there will be a new form. The old ones are still in place, don't worry about that. Uh the new one is gonna incorporate uh uh the new one is gonna incorporate a uh post-match report form. Um that's gonna kind of be a uh required thing because we're trying to capture data on matches, uh staff, uh digital evidence presentation, whether it helped or not for both disqualifications and procedurals and uh chronograph, uh certified ammo stuff, a bunch of different things that will be in that report. And rather than just requesting a sort of a free form after action or match report, this is going to be just a more formalized form that we can sort the information on pretty easily and then uh publish that out, and and that will help us in our efforts to improve matches, uh, to give match directors and range range masters support, et cetera. So that is coming. I'm working the form over right now. Uh it's surprising how much questions you want to ask once you start drilling down into it, right? So if you put in were there any disqualifications, well, that's a pretty open-ended question, right? So it's like list the DQs, not by person, but by type. Yeah. And then was there digital evidence? Who looked at it? The stage crew alone? What was the outcome? That kind of thing. So we're trying to capture information like that. So every match director and range master that's on the form C is gonna get a copy of that form. And it's also gonna be the link for it, it is gonna be shareable to your staff. So your staff can have feedback too, right? So I think it's gonna open up a pretty big uh uh uh variety of possibilities to analyze match data to help people get a little bit better at producing matches, to identify problems that we can address as an ROI, in our training, or maybe a rules, a hole in the rules that nobody's ever really noticed, right? Uh so things like that. Um, but it is coming. I'll probably have it done by the end of this week. Um I'm gonna run it by Jody and Kevin and make sure that we're not missing anything, and then I'll send it to Rick and he'll institute it into the system. So if you log in and put your match in and you see a new form C and you get a couple emails afterwards, that's what that's all about. And that's all I got.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:38

All right. I did think of one more thing that we haven't talked about. Um, we have seven brand new Rangemaster students um that are in the in the very beginning stages of their training. So you will probably some of you will see some of those them out working matches um this this summer and uh getting their uh on the ground experience. We are requiring that of Rangemaster students now. Um when I went through the program, you just did the coursework and then you got, you know, you tested out at a nationals. Um and that was that was it. And that first time out as the RM for a match solo without a lot of experience under my belt doing that. Um had a little bit, but not a lot. Boy, that was intimidating, and it was a very much a learning experience. Um, so now we're trying to send, you know, give these folks, make sure they're on a really soft firm footing when they come out to RM matches. So anyway, you're gonna see uh, like I said, there's seven of them out that are working. We had one or two that weren't able to finish last year for various uh reasons, and so they'll be out working as well. So yeah, if you see these folks, say howdy and um you know, talk to them about the program if you're interested in it, and they can give you the lowdown. So yeah, and uh hopefully we'll uh the next at our first nationals this year we'll be announcing some names of some new range masters. So that's always fun.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:20

All right. Jody, anything from you? I think I'm good.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:26

All right, so again, we do have new rules coming. We're waiting on the board. Um, so keep your eyes peeled. Um, I think we're getting close enough to February now. I don't think we're gonna be able to do a February one effective date, but um one never knows. So but keeper peepers peeled on for that one.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:46

Next board meetings for 26th.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:49

Yeah, so maybe mid-February or March 1, something like that. Who knows? All right. Anyway, with that, as always, if you have questions, comments, whatever, rules at USPSA.org, and we will get an answer back to you as soon as we can. We've been the bulk of mail has been pretty has been quite a bit slower, uh, but uh because it's winter and that's what happens. Um, but yeah, we will get an answer back to you as soon as we can. And um with that, thanks everybody, and good night. Are you looking to take your first range officer class? Maybe you're looking to upgrade to chief range officer or audit a seminar to brush up on your rules knowledge. The complete list of upcoming classes can be found by following the link to find NROI seminars under the NROI tab at USPSA.org. No class is near you. Your club can sponsor an NROI seminar. Follow the request seminar link under the NRI tab at USPSA.org.